I use the last window to figure out what year my map will be released.

I guess that window must be blank then. 

i use 3 views also!

http://trinca.quaddicted.com/1.jpg 

first-angle projection! I know that too. Even that standard is different in USA, where technical drawings have the rotations exactly reverse. :(

Theoretically, mapping with mostly only top view would direct to more 2D maps, ala Duke...

I realize when mapping with four views that one view is usually unused (usually either of the side views) when placing a brush but then needed so soon when putting the next one anyway. With the big screens nowadays it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

For example building stairs is so easy with the side views when you can see the relations at a glance. 

The best way though is probably to let the user arrange views anyway they want(blender is a good example)... 

It's really a matter of taste and editor being used. When I use GTKRadiant, I only ever use the 2-window setup (3d view and the other one I ctrl-Tab through). However when I use UnrealED, I always use the fullblown 4-viewport setup. 

But it's a question of screen size/rez, Try to map with 800x600 and 4 windows. Have fun.

@Kell
I was taught first-angle projection. You probably don't even know what first-angle projection is. Which is perhaps the point.
I was also brilliant at it, and it's certainly contributed to the quality of my mapping.

show-off, but your maps are undoubtely of great quality.

A real pro needs only the coordinates everything else is in the mind. And with two views you have all coordinates

Hey I can do real time raytracing on a piece of paper^^ 

is when a frame takes less than, say, a second. You can do that? 

But I got a new Samsung 22" at work, never get to use that for mapping. Only GIMP. Shame really cause I'd be able to map in 1650x1050 or whatever it was... :(

Who maps with dual displays? 

...but I only use one 2-D view and the cam window . No Z. 

It seems you should just be able to spawn whatever views you want. If you want a top and a side and two camera views, you can have it.

that seems like a good improvement. 

Multiple orthographic views is a definite but I'm not sure which route I'm going to take. Either one window of each view can be opened/closed by user choice (Q3Radiant) or any number of windows can be opened/closed and changed to any view (UnrealEd). Splitter window will NOT be implemented, they snap so that's good enough :)

And, Kell, you came across as a total ass. Maybe you should read through this thread before contributing, specifically post #58 & #66, which makes your post pointless. 

But

If you don't design your editor in a way that suits users, they won't use it

I couldn't continue to hate GTKRadiant if I didn't agree with this. However, you shouldn't turn your software into a carnival of preferences and options so everyone can retain their own little interface comfort bubble. There comes a point where every user just has to learn a new way of working. 

And, Kell, you came across as a total ass.


What the fuck? Get over yourself.

Asking for feedback about your program, then saying "oh I'll just add what I think is good, really you should try it my way" makes you sound like a total ass.

My post was meant to point out that, sure, it's your editor and you can do what you like with it. If you're open to adding features that accommodate other peoples' preferences, then they will be interested. If you don't, you can't really be surprised if they show no interest. The number/type of views is a major difference in preferences. Perfectly valid point.

And if you choose not to accommodate other preferences, yet continue to solicit interest in a dedicated thread, it's really just attention seeking. 

I have know idea where all this is coming from.

Please, show me where I said (not word for word, of course)"oh I'll just add what I think is good, really you should try it my way". Show me where I said that I'm not going to implement features that don't comply to my preference. Tell me, how do I need to "get over myself", how am I seeking attention? Please, show me anything that makes your posts valid.

Anyways, back on topic...

Lunaran: No, I won't let that happen. I want to keep it clean and efficient, to be able to do anything that other editors can do but keep that QuakeEd/Radiant style. If it doesn't make editing easier, than it won't be added, at least not by me. 

in gtkr and doomedit, i can use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out on the map view but i have to use insert/delete here... is that a problem on my end? if not, could you add that in? :) 

Ctrl+RMB and move mouse up/down to zoom in/out, respectively. If you and others prefer the mouse wheel I could easily add it. I, myself, prefer the moving the mouse, as it enables you to zoom exactly where you want where as the mouse wheel is done in hard-coded increments. Hell, I'll add it anyway.

Also, in the "docs" directory there is a file called "Q3E-mousecmds.txt" that lists everything you can do with the mouse in each window. It's not very detailed but it should be easy enough to understand. Any questions, though, don't hesitate... 

i just figured since gtkr, the d3edit version of qeradiant, hammer and 3dsmax all use mouse wheel to zoom. :)

to me, this kind of thing is all about speed and efficiency. you have to think that a mapper is going to be panning and zooming a lot, and that he shouldn't have to think about it. that means the less keys involved, the better.

keeping relevant controls all in the same spot is just good practice. right click + drag = pan and mouse wheel = zoom.

with the current method, you'd have to first pan with right click + drag, then press ctrl and use the same mouse button again and then drag again (at this point, your mouse may be off the mouse pad :P). with gtkr (and the others i mentioned), you can pan and zoom at the same time.

cheers, and good luck :) 

Speed and efficiency is exactly what I'm going for and is the main reason I so detest WC/Hammer. The mouse wheel is a very unique and powerful tool that I plan to utilize for many tasks, zooming being one of them. For instance, maybe using it for nudging brushes or whatever else I think that would benefit from it.

Also, Doom3Edit uses Alt+Drag to zoom as well, so I'm considering changing to that instead of Ctrl+ for those who may be used to D3Edit and have Ctrl+ used for free rotating.

And, necros, I very much appreciate you giving QE3 a try and also for your feedback. 

it's slow going though, so i'm eagerly awaiting the next version for multiple editor windows. ^_^

it *is* nice having an editor that's actually for quake, instead of having to use the gtkr 1.4 haxors and map converting.

and yeah, i agree, apart from mouse wheel zooming, WC is just a really slow way to go about doing anything. having to switch modes ALL the time just to perform basic tasks like entity creation and texture application is dumb beyond belief. the actual texture application method *is* really powerful, however. moreso than radiant style editors. there are methods to preserve texture alignement across rotating faces so doing trim along curved brushes is a simple matter, for example. 

You say you use gtkr 1.4. Are you like me and disgusted by the direction they seem to be taking the editor? I finally had a chance to try 1.5 out a few weeks ago and was amazed by some of the useful features they have removed/changed. Vertex editing is now completely useless again like in QERadiant, they removed the Z-window and they seem to be moving more towards a 3D modeling interface/interaction. But, there are, of course, some nice additions to it. Oh well, at least idStudio appears to have kept the wonderful Z-Window :).

Which version of WC are you talking about, as someone above mentioned that 1.6 had terrible texture locking capabilities. But, yes, texture lock is something I need to perfect when it comes to complex, multiple axis rotations. 

You say you use gtkr 1.4. Are you like me and disgusted by the direction they seem to be taking the editor?

/me jumps up and down waving

I am! Having tried to use maya for FPS interior stuff I can say the camera is a huge detriment. It's designed to pivot around things and look at them from the outside, but in a room or a hallway it's useless. QE/Radiant's camera is like a little FPS player you can drive around the inside of the level.

I admit I've done nothing with this code so far. :( 

1.5 has almost nothing to do with id or the original devs, does it? It's (almost) entirely Spog doing it? 

noname (i'm assuming sikkpin...):

yeah, gtkr effing 1.5 is stupid beyond belief. they completely changed the interface for (to me anyway) no apparent reason, and it definitely wasn't an upgrade.

gtkr 1.4 is the pinnacle of that particular editor.

also, when i was talking about WC, i actually meant Hammer (ie: WC 3.3 that valve uses for source). they fixed a lot of problems in hammer that were in wc 1.6.

lun: have you checked to see if there isn't a 'walkthrough' camera mode? 3dsmax has one, and esp. now that autodesk is doing maya, i'd be pretty surprised if there wasn't one. 

Just tumble, track, and dolly. Maya is extensible enough that you could probably create a radiant-style walkthrough camera but it'd probably require API faffery, and I'm not up for that. 

Am I the only one who actually prefers 1.5 to any of the previous versions?