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I've been punchy lately, sue me.
Firstly, falling damage: It'll be consistent. I wanted input on that to ensure I wasn't being stubborn. Necros said: yes giving players a choice is nice, but frankly i think that's superfluous and can, in some cases, destroy a map's gameplay. a monster should be of constant difficulty in each skill setting. this is akin to having a standardized skybox key in the worldspawn, so that whatever engine is used, whatever player who plays the map experiences the same thing. My response: You would then have to argue that playing on GODMODE also destroys a map's gameplay, and the player can do this at their whim. They can NOCLIP. They can attain all weapons with an Impulse. By the same logic, if I were to subscribe to your thinking, I should then disable all cheats. Right? :) As for monsters of the same class acting differently. I was talking more about shutting off features than enabling them. I.e. you put a monster somewhere precarious and you don't want him to jump, so you set him not to. Necros said: if monster AI was tied into skill levels, it would make more sense, but i'd still be opposed to the modification of original monster behaviour. That's how I originally wanted to do it, but the skill CVAR is not my friend. But that's just the point. The modes are akin to changing the skill setting. You don't require as much skill to play Quake in its native form as you do Nehahra. Playing Nehahra without the monster behavior extras (or at least the combat stuff) is still pretty challenging on its own though. If I really felt (or if in the future feel) that the difference between those two modes is too substantial, I would proceed accordingly. But I don't think they will be. Anything that broadens the enjoyment of a game I cannot see as a bad thing. Modification of the original monster behavior: I've already stated my position on that in my long previous post. Stop kicking that dead horse! :) (See the bit about "institutions") In the end, I truly believe this just translates into more people enjoying Nehahra. A dish served however you want it. And the players who couldn't handle the monsters as well as some others, well, they're less likely to get frustrated and cheat their way through (Fatty, ahem :>). I'd rather they play it.. and I suspect they would rather play it too. I think I may still allow a custom mapper (probably through a field in the info_world) to disable falling damage.
My hang-up on this has more to do with encouraging mappers who are more interested in utilizing some of the great features of Nehahra (ambient sounds, level objects, and triggers and funcs, many of which no other mod has) but may wish for the monsters to remain as they were. Basically, the equivalent of a custom progs with the quake monsters the same but with all the added mapping features.) Mappers who want the map to strictly play, like the original Quake.. (and that may mean putting a clamp on 'realistic' falling damage) That swings the door open wider. The all-engine version I propose.. swings it wider still. I want to leave the community more than something they can play, but something they can use. Call me a sentimental fool. My ultimate preference is that falling damage is always the same as in normal Quake. However, if you retain "realistic" falling damage, I won't whine much as long as it's consistant between all gamemodes.
That might just be the best solution, all things considered.
Just take the damned 'realistic' falling damage out and it becomes a non-issue. heh. I'll be away from the func_msgboard for some days, maybe a week. I'm going to dump the evil butts again. This time, come hell or high water, for good. I'm in a position where this is the *only* sane time to do it. I've been flirting with it for the past week though (hence my glorious moods for those who have been around me.. heh)
But it's best I stay away from msgboards :) The withdrawal makes me irrational and temperamental (even more than usual ;) ) I'll come back and address any postings, answer questions, or whatever.. when my head is on straight (at least as straight as it gets). Cheers. :> <insert bear growl> My response: You would then have to argue that playing on GODMODE also destroys a map's gameplay, and the player can do this at their whim. They can NOCLIP. They can attain all weapons with an Impulse. By the same logic, if I were to subscribe to your thinking, I should then disable all cheats. Right? :)
that doesn't make sense. i wasn't aware the monster ai mode was considered a cheat since you suggest prople to set it to their preference. it's not like you tell people "well, you can play my map with godmode if you want" godmode, noclip etc are all debug features for making maps which just happen to be useful when you want to just blast through a map. monster ai isn't a debug feature, it is designed entirely for the player. your attempt to draw a parallel failed. As for monsters of the same class acting differently. I was talking more about shutting off features than enabling them. I.e. you put a monster somewhere precarious and you don't want him to jump, so you set him not to. i see now more what you were saying about having mapper controlled AI. not something that overly controls the behaviour but to disable specific things like jumping, which is a pretty good idea. I don't choose. The player chooses.
And, for crissake, what is wrong with that?? I think there is an assumption here that the player knows in advance what he wants when it is more likely the case he finds out what he 'wants' after the fact of playing a decent or great level. If you are out to please the player, you will most likely make him more picky, spoiled and eventually miserable if you give him everything that he wants. No. The player needs to be grabbed by his collar, bounced off the floor a few times and then dragged down the hall to greet the vision you have for him by yanking his head up by the hair, and yelling, "There!". Inside of every player is a masochist, inside of every mapper is a sadist, and most often they cohabitate in the same specimen -- Thus Spoke Zarathustra Ok the quit didn't last long this time either :p (oh, the horror of the cycles!)
Necros: I made the comparison to the CHEATS, because the cheats are The modes are in and there will be more Nehahra maps in the future because of it (yes, I was thinking just as hard about mappers as I was players with this). Not to mention, a number of players who couldn't get past the first 2 maps because it was too much for their skills It doesn't mean I'm going to condone vanilla quake mode though :) But it's already in there for the mappers who want to use the Nehahra entities... and it wasn't a secret I was going to keep from the player. I do think of it as merely a change in skill settings. A play who found Nehahra impossible before.. will probably now just find it hard. More players. More mappers. That's my angle. Perhaps it is best that you just wait and see when it comes to that. As we've been discussing (arguing?) the theoretical instead of the tangible. Nehahra isn't out. Only when that happens and everyone's sank their teeth into it, will any of us know for sure who was right or wrong or what was a good or bad idea. I really feel I'm doing the best thing in this regard however. I've had five years to think about it. Truce, necros. Perhaps it is best that you just wait and see when it comes to that. As we've been discussing (arguing?) the theoretical instead of the tangible. then what is the point of this thread? o.0 i thought we were here to discuss things about neh such as gameplay implementation before they get finalised and become tangible, thus, unchangeable...
Truce, necros. hehe, i didn't know we were shooting! :D i'm not using enough smileys, i think! ^_^ Trinca: I guess Skynet didn't finish, but someone said they might get ahold of the work he started.
Kell: That horse has been pounded to dust at this point. Necros: I have looked at the entirety of this thread and every posting by you and I have discovered that every post you make has one thing in common. It is you being contrary. I believe it is you being contrary for the sake of being contrary. I do not think there is one aspect of Nehahra that you have *not* attacked under the thin disguise of feedback for reasons known only to yourself. You only make concessions in sips so as to project the illusion of being even-handed. Nehahra's too popular and hence must be attacked? I'm a threat to you in some way? Nehahra is? So what's your angle? No, nevermind. Let's not go back and forth and again. :) Let's just solve this right now and get it out of the way so we can all move on. Okay? Ready? Here it comes: My penis is bigger than yours. - Don't we all feel better now? It was a tension breaker.
Falling damage: My final word on it. The normal Quake falling damage will be restored. The 'realistic' falling damage goes bye-bye. :> Fugger. I will not say anything in absolutes and commit to anything. Tides of War has a lot of heights involved.
In the end, we'll see if it stays or goes. But I thank all who gave input on it. He has said a while back that i could have the old map files, since he didn't want to work on them anymore. I think that was three years ago.
I didn't take him up on the offer, although now i have no idea why i didn't. I emailed him back recently to see if i could get a hold of them, but he's hasn't replied back yet. I think there was a long wait the first time as well, so i'm not concerned or anything. Guhhhhh...
Sometimes I wonder. After you've quit and relapsed so many times, reinforcing the habit somewhere in the idiot primal brain, you are often left clueless how to approach it. It's a clever monster you can seldom trick the same way twice. It rewires. It remembers. It schemes. It's evile. :| "Quitting smoking is the easiest thing in the world, I've done it dozens of times..."
I am 22 now, smoking since the age of 13 :(
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