News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register | Log in
Copper 1.1 - The Coop Update
Copper Quake has been updated to version 1.1.

Changes were focused on refining Cooperative play, mainly a delayed respawning mechanic that makes death more dangerous, plus quality of life improvements to backpacks, weapons stay behavior, friendly fire and telefrag protection, and more. There are also tons of fixes for bugs, map compatibility problems, and errors in the .FGD, as well as a few further gameplay tweaks.

Underdark Overbright has also been updated with Coop-specific extra monsters, ammo, and other challenges, some of which scale with the number of players. Watch each other's backs.

Download Copper and UDOB 1.1

Full changelists are the readmes.

I've also (finally) finished the Copper Mapping Guide! If it's not in there, it's not implemented.
DL link 404s, should be 
I Do Not 
get this one.

no longer drop any cells for the same reason.

Giving one is a lot better. Also backpacks are useful for some hacks.

It is not that giving the player 1 cell is going to change things. Maps have 20-30 enforcers at most and even that amount of cells is not going to change things, while it does change a lot more if they are rockets. 
I agree with Cocerello.
Custom maps that relies on 5 cells behavior are broken. Can you just drop 0-5 cells (with chances like 0=40% 1=20% 2,3,4,5=10%) instead of not dropping any. Or make it an option (via impulse command for example). 
simplest patch:

void() enf_die3 =[ $death3, enf_die4 ] {
self.solid = SOLID_NOT;
float r;
r = random();

if(r < 0.4)
self.ammo_cells = 0;
else if (r < 0.6)
self.ammo_cells = 1;
else if (r < 0.7)
self.ammo_cells = 2;
else if (r < 0.8)
self.ammo_cells = 3;
else if (r < 0.9)
self.ammo_cells = 4;
else if (r >= 0.9)
self.ammo_cells = 5;
//self.ammo_cells = 5;
fixed broken link. The irony of Luraran's "you suck at the internet" page isn't lost on me. 
ONLY_MELEES: Only monsters with no ranged attack (Dogs, Fiends, and Spawns)

Breaking Negke's Maps 1.1 
@metl: thank you - I'm pretty sure every news post I've ever made on this site has required a link to be fixed by a mod. I swear I clicked every link in the preview this time. (I probably shouldn't have a 404 message that dates to the era when "RTFM" was considered funny and clever.)

@otp: you are correct, list is missing an "etc". Actually also rotfish, now that I think about it? Monsterjumping a fish does either nothing or potentially something hilarious, but I've never thought to try it.

@negke: great, which one this time? :) Please don't say MCE, that one basically requires an untouched vanilla progs to work at all.

@everyone who misses their cells:

I wonder if the way it's presented on the Changes page is actually affecting perceptions, written on its own line like it should come with a clap of thunder or something. I'm not going to get drawn too deeply into this, because I feel the changelist already says everything that needs to be said about it, but just once for the record.

It is given that "cells and Enforcers are unnecessarily coupled in the design" is a problem: If I want to use a lot of Enforcers, I either have to accept that the most powerful ammo is going to be incredibly common, or just never give the player the LG to avoid the issue. Uncoupling them helps the mapper. This is the razor that should be applied to further suggestions: making it random doesn't fix that, and making it a player-preference impulse definitely doesn't, it just makes balancing every new map harder because it makes it harder to predict the player's power level.

What's important is not that you're losing something as a player (free ammo), but that you gain something as a mapper (options), which will make new maps better, so you gain something else as a player instead. The number of existing maps harmed by this change is really very small, and the number of maps improved by it in the future is potentially large. 
RemakeQuake had a couple interesting additions to monsterjump:

1. A randomised delay on pushing the monster(s) - this was particularly useful on groups of monsters to give them a staggered effect.

2. An option to push monsters only when they're at 50% HP or lower. This worked particularly well in the E1M6 remake.

Both were optional spawnflags, and had the benefit of adding extra unpredictability to some combats. Trying to take out a very unconveniently placed Death Knight would suddenly bring him into melee action, changing the dynamics of the fight.

Then again, not sure if adding unpredictability fits with the design goals of Copper... 
My Question Was 
why It is given that "cells and Enforcers are unnecessarily coupled in the design" is a problem: is not an issue for the ogres. I wanted to understand why one of ammo is Ok for ogres and not for Enforcers. Is it because it is the iconic weapon? 
monster jump for fish would be cool if they had an animation of flopping around on land until they can get lucky and fall back in the water. 
Ogres do also have the problem that every ogre = free powerful grenades, but the vast majority of custom maps both 1) use ogres heavily, and 2) give the player a GL at some point, so there's a huge body of work that depends on that relationship and risks becoming unplayable if they dropped none at all. I've always found grenades/rockets to be rather wildly plentiful in most maps, which is why I wasn't shy about reducing the supply some, but didn't want to go all the way because it's just so common.

Mappers tend to only want to use Enforcers in base maps, where the power curve usually doesn't ramp all the way up to giving a LG in the first place, so maps almost never rely on Enforcer cells. Maps that do will often put the LG in a secret, so even then the map is completable without (it just makes the one secret kind of lame), but either way they're explicitly used to give the player a way to "soak up" all those otherwise useless cells. I can only think of one map that requires Enforcer drops to complete - that tall spirally tower in Marcher textures from some jam or other (I can picture it clearly but I don't remember the name at all. Apologies if it was one of yours) so it's actually a fairly low-risk change.

The "secret lightning gun" is becoming more customary, Copper 1.0 made Enforcers a little more nifty and unique, and 1.1 makes the LG more zappy and satisfying, so I think it's more important to open up the options for using either or both, so mappers feel more free to play around with them without having to design around balancing them against each other. 
Luma Naran 
Some visual issues, some showstoppers. Most of them related to hacks of course. Sometimes perhaps suboptimal setups in the maps; however none of them cause issues on id1. For example:

general: modelindex-related hacks seem to break across the board; monster ai function-hacks cause grief too (e.g. crashes mappi2, crashes dmc3m6 on boss wakeup, crashes bbin1 at tarworchy in "would you die for this" secret)

mappi: instant crash because bsp items not precached; the teleporter to the skill selection room makes you the other teleport trigger inside so it's impossible enter at all; on skill 2 there are no items which suggests that the alternative game mode script misfires; no statues and shackled Chthon (modelindex); Chthon boss doesn't teleport in to exit hall

mappi2: bsp precache crash; monster ai function crash; pretty sure the RL shamblers and the Shub scene/monsters wouldn't work too well, either

retrojam3: start room gib heads flying out of closets (usually only occurs on non-QS ports); doors over jump pads don't close fast enough so you can't reach upper floors; atrium knight monsterjumps are unreliable, and exit pit monsterjump doesn't push shambler over the edge, presumably because in copper spawning or teleporting inside triggers works differently somehow

retrojam6: modelindex with a twist - many things don't appear (globes, env sandballs, torches, light fixtures), but the globes inside the pyramid eventually do, or so it seems. They are all triggers to save entities, maybe they appear once fired?; the crucified zombies don't gib on grenade splash damage anymore apparently, rockets still work though; the sun gem doesn't spawn at all (not even bbox, unlike the button artifact at the entrance) which makes it impossible to progress

dmc3m1 & dmc3m4: pee punishment kills don't work, the offending monsters remain alive
dmc3m6: Chthon lightning doesn't always trigger, boss shambler crash

rhoqdm2sp: Chthon lavaballs don't appear

coag3: ogre/marksman infighting doesn't work anymore

soapbler: intermission scene made QM-safe?!! 
Apparently, with the non-instakill behavior enabled, the entity no longer respects delay? 
You must be logged in to post in this thread.
Website copyright © 2002-2020 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors.