|Posted by mafon2 on 2018/06/05 11:00:58|
|Ok, I think, that my 1st quake map turned out pretty well. The ending though, is somewhat messy. I doubt that it's a good level design to toss a player into... well, into this kind of situation.
Plus, overall level design has a severe case of "I tired of this theme, let's try another for 10 metres".
There are 3 secrets + some stashes that are too obvious to be secrets, the map has minor difficulty tweaks and supports color lightning.
I want to express my gratitude to Smashcutcreative and Func_Msgboard community, especiouly everyone who recorded demos and helped me to find weak spots and errors.
You can get it here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d-Vt4lK5A9HqqIji3aMHghF3eIJ7JZZs
Screenshot 4 is the best usage I've seen of that metal texture for those arches. Looks nice and oldschool.
I killed all the monsters in the last arena and now i don't know what to do :P
there's a message that keeps showing at the center of the arena: "sacrifice!"
but i really don't know what do you want from me :P
A plain simple sacrifice :)
You have to sacrifice some hp and then some more :).
BTW, I'm impressed you managed it, 'cause it's a puzzle-like situation... your previous actions should nudge you to the answer.
SPOILERS: all I had to do was to hide in one of the cubicles where the monsters came from, and then I killed them all from the distance :P
but i still don't understand the puzzle XD
i think i'll wait for someone to record a demo to see how they solve it =D
Congratulations on the release!
FYI, I'm smachcutcreative on Reddit. :)
Looking forward to giving this a proper play through later today. Glad you stuck with it, the shots look great.
Demo, Lots Of Commentary:
Impressive first map. Some of the better designs and the grey + blue + base stuff work really well, lots of potential. Good layout too.
Things that need work:
Better texture combinations in some places.
Better designs in a few more boring areas.
Increase lighting contrast, gloomy and flat.
MOAR ENEMIES. This could have had 2-3 times as much (with a bit more ammo etc) and still been fair and fun.
Basically keep it going man, a really promising start.
That was quite informative, I watched with great interest. Not sure I will make more elaborate lightning, but I tried to make a hotfix for most glarring issues:
- added some more enemies, but not that much.
- tweaked some textures, filled some holes.
- added a trap/secret in the well with nailgun.
- Oh! And special barrier to discourage people from jumping to the specific ledge. (It was even easier to get there previously – one particular brick just catapulted the player upwards).
While making map I wasn't thinking too much in terms of color matching and tried to make "cool" things I wanted to create, hoarding it all together, this scatteration most definitely affected the overall loook.
Frankly speeking, I dread the light placement.
My priority was to make it clear for the player where to go next, hence red arrows and red wires, plus I tried to implement some fancy eye steering with directional lines and color lights.
Also, I'm quite proud of the beginning, where it shows a player that pressing buttons in sequence will be on the test, it shows the frames of the buttons and their relative placement, plus, of course, those grates that mirror secret grates under elevators.
i was watching shambler's video... the exit from the last arena is just a rocket jump? What about the "you have 3 seconds" message? what does it mean? :/
And i agree with the critiques about the lights. The map looks flat, like a cartoon, without shadows. I mean... he doesn't have any shadows at all :/
Would you be cool if I did a video critique of your map for my YT? Since this is one of your first maps? I did one here:
If not, no big deal I will still send you a demo.
Here are 3 demos. I was doing great until the end -for some reason I kept quickloading instead of quicksaving!
Some thoughts: [SPOILERS!]
*I think it's a mistake to have the player need to rocket jump to exit the level. I didn't have enough armor or health to do it without cheating.
*Lighting. You had a minlight setting on your map or you set light in worldspawn (the same thing really). That's really not a good thing to do. As you can see people have noted your map looks flat. It's a shame because there are a lot of moody sections of your map. They would really be enhanced by lighting.
*yeah more monsters across the board would be helpful.
okay on to the GOOD stuff
* I love how you toyed with the player and instructed them with messages. Not too obnoxious. It felt good. Just the right amount.
* drink my blood moment was cool
* hidden wizards (the face in the wall) was a very cool moment
*some interesting uses of textures. some really good and clever - some not so good. Like a wall texture on a lift. :-\
*you had a lot of nice rooms and structures that worked well across the board. The "final" battle room was nice and the surrounding areas too.
*good secrets overall - although I missed some of them
I'd say great work on your first map! It was a large ambitious project and I usually tell beginners to start of small. But you pulled this one off pretty well. You have a great start here. Congrats. I'd still like to do a video on this map if you are interested.
And Seal The Map If You Plan An Update
it's #1 rules for a proper map. The map must be sealed and vised.
Originally there were 4 shamblers, but I found it too brutal, I presumed that 2 is enough to kill player almost instantly. It's 3 seconds till the bars lower and you'll be stuck with 'em in an arena. So you have 3 seconds to escape them via rocket jump and then drown them in lava.
BTW, are shamblers immune to lava? Mines are surely don't give a damn, walking freely on the bottom of pit.
Monsters don't react to liquids at all in regular unmodded Quake.
I think to make lava kill the monsters, you have to put a trigger_hurt on the botton of it.
Alternate Way To Kill The Poor Shamblers
Does trigger_hurt work on monsters? o: Can't check right now, since I'm not at my editing computer.
In case it doesn't work, you could also use invisible (by using skip textures) func_doors or func_trains to crush the shamblers.
@dumptruck_ds Second Part | @PuLSaR
1st of all, it's always really fun to see someone play your map and it was time well spent.
I made sure that the player has enough rockets, hp and armor to acomplish the jump. On the paper, the player should not engage shamblers and try to escape. Plus, rockets you have so plenty of are weak against them.
Face in the wall was Shambler's idea. He suggested to add a scare in the well and I decided to brick up unlucky fellow near the nailgun. The wall is fake, so you can jump there.
About «sealing the map». I'm not so familiar with the concept, but I presume the brushes should not float in open space and structures should not have holes... there can be problems: there are plenty of trash behind the decorations (cut stuff, stuff for cutting, props...). If deleting these will make map better, I'll get down to it... eventually.
I tried it. You're right!
No survivors anymore!
I'll work on a video for this. Thanks for allowing me to critique it.
Please watch my video on releasing your map. There are a bunch of tips and best practices for your next release.
That leads me to another tip: move on from this map and don't keep releasing new versions. Take what you've learned here and apply it to your next map.
Sorry, I forgot to paste the link to the map release video.
I'm subscribed to you, I can't miss it :))).
@mafon2: Sealed Vs Leaking
About «sealing the map». I'm not so familiar with the concept
Make a simple box room out of six brushes that form a hollow cube, and stick an info_player_start inside that box. Make sure that there are no gaps where the brushes meet. Now compile the map and run it. When you noclip outside the box, you'll notice you don't see the backs of the brushes -- instead, you keep seeing the inside of the box even as you move into the void. This map is sealed: the brushes completely cut off the playable area from the void (i.e. endless empty space) around it.
Now go back into the editor and move or resize one of the brushes a little so that there is a small gap between it and the other brushes. If you compile and load that map and noclip into the void, you'll notice that you can now see the backs of the brushes too: you'll see the entire structure you've made in the editor in-game, just sitting there in the void. This map is unsealed, or leaking.
That's the basic idea, but it applies regardless of how complexly shaped your map is -- you should always make sure that it is sealed off from the void.
Another way of thinking about it is to imagine that the void is made up of water, and you want to make your map watertight, so there should be no tiny spaces for the void/water to "leak" into the map.
When your map is unsealed, the engine has draw tonnes of unnecessary stuff (the outside of the map that the player should never see), and you cannot run vis
-- and when a map is unvised, the engine likewise has to draw tonnes lots of unnecessary stuff (i.e. the parts of the map beyond what the player should be able to see at any given point).
Note that you cannot use brushes with a water/slime/lava texture to seal a map, so e.g. if the floor of room is made of slime and beyond that is just void, you'll need to stick another world brush underneath the slime brush to seal the map. The same applies to func_detail brushes, if I recall correctly. Sky brushes are fine, though.
What about water brush, that sticks out of the cave walls? Does it leak?
No that's not an issue if it "sticks out" into the void.
Have you watched my trouble shooting video? It goes into some detail about this but "total newb" has it correct in the post above.
Doors and plats need to be "encased" in brushes as well. You may have some of those facing the void causing a leak.
Yep, what dumptruck_ds said.
I hadn't downloaded this before, but just had a very quick look around and saw two leaks (there may be more):
1) The bit of lava with the rockets and the two slopes at either end: at the bottom there are gaps where the lava touches the void.
2) The door marked "exit": the bottom of the door touches the void.
If you're having trouble finding all of the leaks in your map: when you compile a map that's not been properly sealed, your compiler should generate a pointfile. It has the same name as the .bsp, but with the file extension .pts. You can load this either in-game (in Quakespasm -and presumably most other engines- using the "pointfile" console command) or in your editor (in TrenchBroom under "File --> Load pointfile", if I'm not mistaken). This is especially useful for leaks that are not as obvious as the two I pointed out above.
PS: I played through the map quickly too, and it's charming and fun in a kind of chaotic, creative 90s era sort of way. At times it reminded me a bit of madfox's earlier maps. Your centreprint messages made me chuckle quite a few times. You clearly had fun making the map, which makes it fun to play despite its flaws (I echo the criticisms the others have raised, esp. regarding the lighting). It's a very promising start, and I hope you keep mapping.
No, I didn't.
Now I did. The map had more holes than a golf course. With vis enabled, it took more than an hour to compile.
I may not get to your video until next week but i will focus on some of the lighting and how to approach it in a way that won't overwhelm a new user. Stay tuned!
You said on post #9 that you made a hotfix for this map with more enemies, tweked textures and other things...
Are you gonna release this new version here? I would love to play it, mainly because of "more enemies" =D
Died first time in the final room with the shamblers. I think that if you're going to require the player to rocketjump, you should feed them some extra HP/armor afterwards to ensure they can make it. I got weathered too far to make the jump on my second try. Here's a blind demo and my 3rd run to completion.
I meant to say that you should feed them hp/armor BEFORE the required jump!
I Agree With #33
It's a game breaking issue as there's no guarantee you will have enough rockets, health or armor to make the jump.
@dumptruck_ds | @Tribal
«i will focus on some of the lighting and how to approach it in a way that won't overwhelm a new user»
That would be most helpful.
I increased difficulty by adding about 2-3 monsters for every existing encounter. Most of them don't spawn on normal or easy difficulty.
Also, I placed megahealth in the room with "final battle" and armor in "hell arena" (the armor fell off... >_>). You do not supossed to fight with them, anyway.
There are new visual bugs though – some walls in the "final" room disapear. It's not fatal, but ugly.
I loved your second speed-run demo and your style of play overall :-).
Oh, I didn't noticed that you updated the file in the first post. My bad, sorry =D
I'll play the new version tonight XD
Here is my playthrough, if you are intersted:
It's not a blind run, since i already played the first version :P
Awesome job with the details and the architecture =D
Thanks for the experience o/
Your light rendering is different from mine. I have very subtle light, while yours is very contrastive, almost like there's no global light present.
You play so careful. I usually just run and gun, no wonder it seems hard to me. BTW, you missed the medkit in the "HI" room. Maybe it'd helped you to survive the rocketjump (there must be health pack in "HI" and "armor" in "UP", the later didn't spawn on hard difficulty until yesterday).
Also, I surprised you managed to get rocket launcher and get back through the door – it's not supposed to happen. Thank god, it didn't close.
It seems that monsters tend to fight among each other... more than usual. I haven't noticed it, while playing. They also seemed more passive to me (again, it might do with my play style). Also, my fiends sometimes jump down without any trigger needed. I didn't place it, 'cause they supose to entertain the player, who managed a succesful rocket jump, so it wouldn't be just button pushing.
BTW, it would be super easy to achieve height required, by simply running towards the wall and shooting about 45 degrees down. It's how I do this.
About the light rendering, it's different because i'm using FTE engine. FTE has realtime lights and shadows, and it makes the maps look a bit different, more dark and sinister. If you turn this feature off, and it will look exactly like quakespasm. But i prefer realtime on, because it gives real depht to the enemies and the map itself =D
Yep, i like to play Quake like a horror game, thats why my aproach is more careful and slow, saving health packs and counting ammo =D
And about the rocket jump... i'm the worst rocket jumper in the world. It took me a lot of tries to make it right. Of course i edited my fails out of the video. Nobody wants to see me dying 20 times just to do a simple rocket jump =D
I am gearing up to do a video on your map. Could you link to the revised version of your .map file plz? I have the original but I see you've updated the map since then.
If I'm not mistaken, you can download different versions from Google Drive, so if you want a more crude example, it'd probably be better for demonstration purposes.
Last time, I was picking my map, I somehow lost some textures (water and metal5). And while restoring, I thought that it's more suitable for sewers to have yellowish water and blue water for dungeon.
Latest .map file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1t-JL6GytI8SiZlQCH0bfpwT9kFOnAMvo
Latest .bsp and .lit are still available via 1st link.
Great! I have started on another video in the meantime, but your episode will be available soon - maybe by the weekend (?)
I am back on your video now. Some questions for you.
What gamma and contrast settings are you using while mapping and testing your maps? You can type gamma into the console and hit enter to see your setting and the default. Same with contrast.
Also what Quake source port/engine do you use?
Finally what are your compiling options for your final compile? i.e. -extra -soft
Video Coming Soon
I'm working on a 2 part video that covers this map. Focused 100% on lighting. Should be posted by Weds the 4th.
Great work as usual, looking forward to part 2.
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