|Posted by SgtStabs [220.127.116.11] on 2017/09/29 16:35:46|
|Based on the sleepgate, rather than a slipgate, send your physical being into the world of dreams nightmares, a slight spin on the slipgate tech. Infiltrate the base and gain access to the sleepgate. Great medium sized snake map (paths cross all over each other.)
Final Vis passes complete, tweaked AO, sunlight, added some phong
A few screenshots might have helped players to know what to expect, though.
FYI For Players
This map requires quoth, as the op didn't mention it.
Congrats on the first map. So I've created a demo for you:
Here are some things I thought were good:
-good use of Quake 2 textures, created a unique feel
-overall layout of map was ok, with some good puzzles
-enemy placement created decent challenge
-great idea with the portal at the end and introduction of base monsters
-creation of vehicles with brushes for detail
So, I read your post on Quaddicted and see that you made this in 7 days. In this case, that is pretty solid, and I find it impossible to really criticize a speed map, made in only a few days. If you spent more time however, months (years...), and had testers play it, some things could have been fixed:
-geometry around start had sky brushes covering some walls
-severe lack of ammo if player didn't find lightning gun, and this was hidden behind crates
-there were many "doors" that do not open and feel very strange, or give no message when they are locked
-some things that I felt must have been secrets, gave no secret trigger.
-the ending fight, while very cool, could have the player camping over the enemy spawn to kill telefrag them all.
Thanks for making the map!
Going To Be Playing Through This In About An Hour
Cheers buddy, be good to see how others playthrough
i thought i might have some item issues balance issues as i knew where all the secrets are
Just watched the playthrough, ahh that damn thunderbolt secret, that's not like me to do things like that lol
Ill add in those suggestions and incorporate some fixes, should that armor be a secret place? i thought it was kind of pain to get to and it was very visible negating the whole secret factor.
So now to move onto my sleepgate dreamworld, whats the chances of getting a coder to add in func that let you walk on walls and ceilings?
also how you got that plasma gun is beyond me, that computer nearby, you shoot a little red panel on the computer to open the door containing the battery/explodobox, you shoot that and it opens up the plasma gun.
Latest Version Has Some Textures Issues
When loading the map in Quoth, I have a message into the console saying that some textures are missing.
Indeed, a few small parts in the map appear to be missing a texture.
The map is cool, by the way. Feel a bit like in old Doom 2.
Glad you liked it, trenchbroom is something special ive used a lot of brush editors but the way you can just make maps in 3d mode is really groundbreaking for me at least.
Just uploaded what should be the final version now with a lot of fixes from the above video steam ionous made, link is same as above.
start area isn't a shitty cliff now
and put in another Easter egg
link is same as above
screenshot of new start area.
Hexcalk reborn? No offense intended btw.
Nope, i have done a lot of mapping before for the build engine, mainly eduke+dukeplus
Editor was really clunky and the new renderer just ran like shit and it seemed like it would never get better.
So after playing mapjam9 and seeing how advanced mapping is these days + the advancements quoth brang i took up trenchbroom and here we are.
probably my fave build map i made, was for WGR2 mod
There are still 3 textures missing, according to the console.
Also, when you finish the map, there's no way to go back (closed door) for exploration, finding secrets and kill the remaining idiots.
Is it important?
I cant seem to find anything about it except in the compiler it says
Texture __TB_empty not found
*slight bug as well, it wasn't rendering a surface under the stairs correctly, uploading fixed version now
You'll Probably Want
to send this latest version to Spirit as fast as possible before he uploads to Quaddicted the one you showed him, or you can run into problems.
Going to record a demo of this map now so you can get more feedback now. The map looks interesting.
Done ... Almost
Died twice and the last one right at the last 3 enemies so called it for now.
To watch them and Redfield's just place the .dem files on the id1 or quoth folder and type ''play nameofthefile'' in the console of the game.
This is a good start you have here. A lot of attention to detail, nice atmosphere, sense of realism and use of machinery, interesting encounters, lots of ideas and originality, good layout that made sense, good pacing and well placed ammo.
On the other side, it has some issues:
- The detail is good but sometimes is hard to know what is what and on the first third of the map I struggled with finding the doors of each room. It's better that you use a texture all the time for important things.
- It needs to use clipping brushes here and there or wider rooms as in several encounters i took more damage from getting stuck on the walls than from the combat itself. Getting stuck is OK but in this case it was too easy at those times.
- There is some minor issues in texture alignment for the light monocolor brushes.
- About the lighting gun, it seemed that it wasn't a secret. If you go this route, i recommend to put the other weapons a bit hidden too, so the player knows that they have to be searched for. I never expected it so didn't went back after seeing the cell ammo.
- It is a bit unforgiving half of the time. I would recommend more health on the first third, 50 percent bigger rooms, more cover, make it so the vorelings can be seen a bit before the attack or more room to move from them, or use less enemies per room. There is several situations were its hard to avoid damage.
- The glass: You can make glass by adding the ''alpha'' key to any brush entity and giving a value between 0 and 1 for transparency. I expected it to be real glass and that the enemies wouldn't shoot me through it, and got some shots.
- Not in my case, but many people will hate this map because it has lots of Quoth monsters even on skill 1. Some people even consider most of them as mini bosses almost on the level of shamblers, so even if the combats ends well for the player and was easy they won't like it much. Keep that in mind.
-I think that you'll need to tone down the difficulty on skill 0 and 1 and let the hard one for skill 2. Keep in mind that most people won't play as well as the mapper himself and the people that usually play maps on skill 0 won't be able to finish it as it is.
- It wasn't clear what i had to shoot at the cart, and thought i had to blow the whole cart up. Also, you should kill the message by killing the entity when it has served its purpose.
- Some enemy gibs after the big explosion would have been nice.
- Like Redfield i also think that you should have put some of the more hidden items as secrets, like that big nail box at the beginning.
I want to see your next one, you have an interesting style in mapping and many things that i like on maps that are usually lacking.
yeah i really wanted to block out some walls with clutter over them, actually wanted to block out the forklift so it drops the boxes instead of lifts but you could just jump over the forklift anyway.
but couldn't find anyway to make invisible blocking brushes that lets weapon fire through.
no one noticed the sleepgate section after the gold key is basically the test chamber section from hl1?
"but couldn't find anyway to make invisible blocking brushes that lets weapon fire through. "
Clip does exactly that :)
A Bit Of Explanation
About the glass i was talking before, that's a Quoth feature, and I suggested to put it on the ambush just after entering the building at the very beginning, which seemed to have some kind of glass on the window but i mistook it due to the change of the lighting's colours between the rooms. Played again the map on skill 2 and realized what happened, so don't mind much about the glass, as there is plenty of levels without it and for most we don't expect it.
The enemy gibs can be gotten by placing one or two enemies near the explosion or crush them with a moving brush with a high damage if struck, a door will do, when the explosion happens.
And about toning down skill 0, to summarize, i think it is better if you widen the differences between skill levels, and don't worry about making skill 0 too easy.
What i do in this cases is if i don't know well how to balance skill 0, I choose to make it easier than harder even if it is too easy, as it will always be more enjoyable a too easy than a too hard experience and if people want a more challenging experience, there's always skill 1 and 2 for that.
As an example, while keeping the current choice and proportion of enemies and the type of encounters, for skill 0 i would lower the count down to 30 enemies or 50 if reducing the proportion of medium-high tier enemies to half or less. That would put it into a manageable level for the people that usually play on skill 0. Dropping one or two powerful non-secret items could help to balance it too.
And to end it, if you have any doubt of what i said just ask, i don't mind, i realized late that i didn't explain much so it maybe left you confused. Good thing Mukor helped to clarify the clip brushes part.
hmm thats a good way of looking at it, balance is a real issue once youve played your map in testing 100s of times
then there is the issue of balancing around the 2nd playthrough as there is usually a stark difference in players skill when they know the map.
Is normal difficulty the default setting?
Is normal difficulty the default setting?
I say it is skill 2. Quake mappers usually make skill 2 as the base, and just use the Spawnflags ''not in normal'', ''not in Easy ...'' on the enemies to make skill 0 and 1. Also most people don't try more than one skill level so there is not much of a reason to put work into skill differences.
On non-mapjam maps I do spend time on skill levels but it's a pain in the ass. I usually spend the most time on Normal not Hard.
cheers for taking the time to make that video, i cant imagine doing that with australias legendary nationwide 92kb upload cap.
and yeah all the good weapons are in secrets that arnt very conventional.
ill run through and clear up the difficulty later iam into my new map atm, how the fuck do i make a dream world that makes no sense while still being fun.
maybe a stack of wads so the theme of the map can constantly be changing, that why i like the idea of keep mod the monster variety would be excellent for this.
I've been busy mapping the last few evenings but last night I took a break and watched Arrrcee's playthru of your map. Balance issues aside, you did a great job and there are some fun things in this first map. Pretty impressive. Things will only get better if you have some beta testers play before you do a release. I've just given my current project to a few ppl on func and their input only makes my mapping better.
Congrats on the release. Oh and the spawning "boss" telefrags at the end of the map can be fixed. Not sure if you've done that or not but here's the info:
This entity is used for spawning multiple monsters from a single point. The entity will only spawn a monster if there is room, and will wait if there isn’t. Once it is activated, it will spawn the next monster after a delay, until it has created the amount of monsters specified.
from Preach's site.
yea, it is like Half-Life1 meets Quake2, quite a unique look, with Doom2 gameplay. silver key looked like gold one under the colored lighting. fun to play
cheers guys, yeah i love the build engine/2.5d fps style of games, always liked the details they had in those games over quake in 96, favorite games from the era are probably duke for the environments, hexen 2 for the destruction, and strife because i love pseudo fps/rpg games.
mmm and forgot to flag those droles with the awake flags, get around to that when iam done with this new map.
if you wanted to see where the secrets are I uploaded a playthrough vid, its in VR so its something different, good game for VR, great to unwind in a new map now and then.
some furniture from the new map.
Those benches! Awesome.
but be very careful when you try to put realism and realistic sizes into Quake, as it doesn't work, from a gameplay side and from visual expectations side.
I recommend you to reduce the places the players or the enemies can get stuck as much as possible (for example put the chair as close to the table as possible, or block places where the enemies can lose time in or get stuck with more furniture, a column, ...), and to do furniture at least 50 percent bigger than real ones and the rooms 100-200 percent bigger. If you don't want to, a trick that could fool some is to reduce the scale of the textures by half to give the feeling that the room is bigger, but it won't last for long.
Well, That Was Quite The Base Map!
But I ran out of ammo towards the end. Had to use cheats.
Still a neat map, I agree with the above comment about how it's like Quake 2 meets Half Life.
The most Half-Life map for Quake since The Pit many years ago. I really liked how throughout all of the first act (up until the silver key door) I knew exactly where I was in relation to the starting area, it was a really clever layout. Lots of nice detail in realistic style, but that will return later...
Played through on normal, and managed to just about scrape through the last two waves of monsters on about 30hp to exit the level. I started recording a demo half way, but sadly it's not in a format compatible with released Quoth. I often joke that I have about 10 times more practice with the Quoth monsters than anyone, and I was struggling here.
If I was to point the finger at anything, I'd blame the secrets! The only thing I found was the yellow armour, and that didn't even count as a secret. It was a bit of a slog playing almost all of the map with just the shotguns, even though the map did a good job of breaking up the humanoid base monsters with more varied enemies.
When I watched your secrets playthrough, I had real difficulty trying to distinguish all the details you shot at to reveal things from all the details I tried shooting to no avail. I guess that's a tough balancing act if you're going for a realistic environment full of detail - how do you make indicators for secrets which are distinguishable without being too obvious? Maybe the key is to make the presence of a secret obvious (so the item can be seen but not reached) and make the secret about finding the route in.
So. I Did Play This Before....
....but inspired by Shamblernaut's 101/101 kills + 102/102 deaths skill 3 run, I tried it again...
Pretty tough. 2 out of the skills I got were luck. The secrets were crazy hard as every wall detail could be one.
I streamed this yesterday and thought I would offer some feedback.
(I played on nightmare)
What I liked:
Scripting and monster encounters were excellent.
The interconnectivity of the map is great. it isn't a huge map, but revisiting areas works well, and the areas don't become stale or boring. This is a good feat.
Interesting theme, I liked the tiny red buttons on the panels for doors.
Forklifts and trucks!... Very hard to do well in quake. Well done :)
What I didn't like:
The architecture was very blocky and "utilitarian" though. If this was by design, then ignore this point.
There was a lack of health at some portions of the map, particularly at the end fight (this could have been the fault of my gameplay though).
Please for the love of god, don't use button textures for normal geometry unless it is supposed to be usable or broken and once was usable. We have some simple conventions that shouldn't really be broken.
Textures scaled too small or too large. Please try and keep this to a minimum as too many texture scale differences look odd together.
Lastly, I aggro'd a voreling in a room at one point by standing on a slatted roof. I feel like that should never have happened. The roof was easy to get to, and the monster aggro'd straight away, ruining any ambush possibility, I felt this was a shame.
Anyway, if I'm nitpicking about stuff like this then there clearly isn't much to criticise, good job.
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