PUMP UP THE JAM
dayum that's a lot of maps :o
Workday will take forever before I run home.
Awesome, been so looking forward to this pack.
Thanks to all mappers and Daz for getting it together!
OSSUM! Congrats to all the participants :)
Mega-hype ... nice! Love to see that many people jamming.
So apparently some people's inventory is not resetting when going back to the start map. I have no explanation for this as it works fine here and this is the first I've heard of this :P
So, if you still have your guns & ammo when returning to the start map. Just start a new game. Nothing lost, and you preserve balance of authors maps.
I'll look into this see about a patch...
Yeah, it seems you not only need to go to '/maps/start.bsp' when changing levels, you also need to have collected a rune at some point (set serverflags) for Quake to reset your weapons and ammo. So dumb :(
You can give yourself a rune with impulse 11 and that will make your weapons reset when you get to the start map!
...or just load all the maps individually from the console like most people do ;D
Played the first 2 levels so far. I suck at finding secrets.
Adib: Your level was neat, but some of the platforming was a bit weird sometimes.
Breez: Awesome level, really nice atmosphere, even if there was not a whole lot of fire and brimstone. It felt like some Lovecraftian library. Good stuff.
MAP JAM 6 PATCH 1
This fixes the weapons not resetting when you re-renter the start map bug.
Simply replace the start.bsp in the maps/ folder with the one in the archive and gogogo :)
Sorry for the inconvenience :(
If you release a fixed version, name it func_mapjam6.zip for continuity.
Zomg That Was A Irc-quick Response
<negke> ok daz, your fix sucks
Hotfix no longer required. The main download has been updated with the fix. Thanks Negke!
First 3 Maps Played
Adib Murad - nice vertical with good idea of broking seals. though there's major design flaw, if you missed stones in the final room map becomes unpassable as u won't be able to return there.
Breezeep - proper map with nice atmosphere and balance.
Daz - nice underground evile. though not rly clear what to to after clearing final battle, so had to ask around ;)
DaZ: Awesome map overall, though one can tell that you kinda ran out of time a bit with the stuff towards the yellow key door.
Also noticed some bugs, and things that do not look great. You got a whole bunch of skip texture into void stuff. For example at the stepping stones in front of the yellow armour secret. Also in the caves at the top of the lava falls. I think there were some other places.
The leaning stone in front of the entrance of the little building at the top (where the Mario secret is) is illusionary. Any reason for that? And I got an awesome demo of how one can fall out of your map at the very start. This worked for me every time. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15588722/post/func_msg/jam6_daz_ptoing.dem
I also got some vis problems in some places where stuff in the distance would show the void. Can that be fixed with commandline settings or somehow otherwise?
you get bonuspoints for your end of level camera. Best perspective ever :D
holy shit this map... I am blown away.
I think your demo on my map freezes at the first few seconds of the demo. I don't know if it's something else.
Yeah, strangely enough the level had no void on a -fast vis but errors occured once I full vised it :( I did find a few areas where collison was incorrect, but I didn't know there was one right at the start!? That sucks :(
The top area was a bit of a rush job, lots of c'n'p geo and "just throw a damn light in there so they can see" lighting ;)
I quite enjoy the final fight though. let me know what you thought. The other oversight is that its not clear that you pick up a SK after the fight and there is no clear way off the rooftop which seemed to confuse Vondur a bit :D We live and learn :)
Yeah, the final fight was enjoyable, enough spaces to hide from the Shambler and Vore and create opportunities for infights. I would have made the top of the quad roof flat, as in not flat flat, but give the very top some kinda flat beam, just a bit nicer to navigate up there.
Oh also, the lava not having an ambient sound can be worked around by either placing light_flame_large_yellow entities with 0 brightness underneath the level, or inside of little pockets in the wall. OR you could also just give them an alpha variable and set it to 0.001 which is totally invisible in all engines that support the alpha thing, which I reckon is all of them by now.
Way Too Late
I will try it out in the morning. Thanks Daz for putting it together!
Blind Play Through Demos
Some of these were recorded on the first version of the level sent to me by email (they won't work for you unless you are the author of the map who has those older versions) so if you are having trouble playing a demo from your own personal level then you might need to step back a version or two until you find the correct one. Annoying yes but I wanted to get my blind play throughs recorded!
wtf, indeed... freezes here too. try von_2_1. i died there so it's from the save, seems works here. (i played with quakespasm)
Will You Be Streaming The Jam Like You Did With The Previous Jams?
I'll Stream Tomorrow!
Too tired and stressed out tonight :)
All The Maps Work On Mark_V
I aint using quakespasm! They work in MV for me just fine.
Thanks! But I need more details. I sometimes fall in the first room, but I thought it's because I'm retarded. I also know some rocks doesn't make very good jump pads. Anything else?
@Vondur - Absolutely right. Button that opens the last door at that room would reset the other two. Glad you liked the seals. The... tools to break them should not be so obvious, but I ran out of time.
*** SPOILER ALERT ***
In a little post mortem:
1- There are devices that should be mimicked with the environment, making them less obvious, but no time to work on the geometry required;
2- Pushing the last button should spawn a final wave of monsters along the way to the exit;
3- I had to cut off one last room.
Some other things will be tweaked. In the third room, the upper door is useless. It's a multiplayer mapper mistake, to freak about connectivity and circular paths around the map.
I'm also still dreaming about this other rocky level idea I had.
Running home now to see your levels!
Daz, that was a masterful play through on the first version of my map. I considered it uncompletable (ie 100% kills, not running for your life to the exit...), but I think if you'd found the one secret you actually would have done it.
I wonder why the proper info intermission didn't appear after you exited. Because it was a demo or something? The map surely has one.
intermission cams get get bonked!
Cute little map. Did not get stuck in it like Von did. Reminded me a bit of DM4? Looks cool!
Very well done map. Looks great, nice combat, though I kept getting murdered by fish.
Excellent map, despite all the fucked up glitches that Daz willingly added to it.
EricW & Tronyn
It's a Tronyn map. It's huge, it's insane, it's completely off the charts in every possible way. Looks gorgeous.
Neat little map, if this is a first try it is pretty great!
Great looking map, nice style. Kinda reminded me of Doom 4 in some ways. I think I might have gotten lost through some unintended shortcut, because I was a bit confused about where to go towards the end.
Another cute little map. Not much happening in it, but what's there is nice.
Gorgeous. Weird, sparse gameplay. Completely crazy map. Loved it. Reminded me of Halo or Metroid Prime, or SPoG's Q3 map. What a strange map.
Beautiful map, nicely themed and laid out. Love the lava balls dripping from the ceiling. Played on easy so I had no monsters, which was oddly nice and atmospheric.
Hate to admit it, but this is my fave map of the bunch. Looks amazing, plays great, lots of great little details. The multiple(!) boss fights(!), wow! Scampie is 100% a millennial for sure, but he's a millennial with fierce mapping skills.
I don't know what to make of this map. It flickers through so many different styles and looks it almost makes sense. Crazy weird map.
Beautiful little map. I can see the AAA experience shining through in this though. ;-) I played it on easy and haven't tried it on any higher difficulties, so I thought it was a nice and atmospheric place to explore in relative quiet. The end was a bit chaotic, but overall a great map.
Jesus christ What The Fuck. What the fuck is this. What the HELL. Fucking shit is it LOOKING at me? Fuuuuck! What the fuck dude. Jesus christ this map. This map...
It is completely, utterly brilliant though.
You're French, right?
"I can see the AAA experience shining through in this though."
I'm trying to shake it, I really am. :)
Thanks czg, glad to hear some feedback (and anxiously awaiting to see what others think). It's my first Quake map and I was sick for half of the jam period so it's small, but I tried to make it as polished as I could. Still, even seeing Daz' demo reinforces the criticisms I had already about the separate routes and how redundant it is to have them split like that (and that there should be better separation between them)�� Hope I can learn even more from seeing how ppl approach the map! Cheers :)
Czg - DM4
Guilty as charged. Best id map.
Okay, enough screwing around; I got nervous about my long username before and briefly switched, but after seeing how I'm credited in this OP and the mod readme I'm back to the first name I chose and I'm sticking to it. I'll just submit any future maps as jamX_tens, like Daz renamed me here and like FifthElephant usually does for his work.
That being settled, I'll offer feedback and demos as soon as I have a chance to play, but thank you FifthElephant for the wonderful reaction, and same to czg! "What the fuck" is my favorite response.
But don't you dare call me French.
Played for like 2 hours... tired out now, still have Daz and Tronyn/Ericw's map to play...
Great look, cool concept, but you can get stuck (which I did, cause I don't look up much). Love this lighting.
Fantastic knave map. This felt like a full level and played smoothly.
Daz, EricW & Tronyn
For some reason, I totally missed the teleporter for these maps............................ I'll get to them later ._.
Cool but sometimes took a while to walk around there where I needed to go. Also I suck at jumping........
Solid architectural style throughout. Was a little tough at times, but I made it. Good concept with the glowing portals that you deactivate.
I was seriously weirded out by the eyes. This was also really hard and I died several times. The whole vibe of this map put me on edge, probably why I died so much. Awesome concept.
Nice map but short. Some cool ideas, but the ending is not telegraphed very well and I missed some things like the graveyard and the other door. I like that you can approach the final room from either side.
This felt really forlorn for some reason. It reminded me of arx fatalis, but an arx that had long been abandoned in a universe approaching its end... so in other words, cool. ;)
Another map that felt like a full level. Nice use of the chthon hax and super floyd. gameplay is very smooth as well.
This map is weird because of it's crazy jumps in themes. I really like the void tunnels and how they transport you to different worlds.
A beautiful map, but it felt more fun to look at then fight in. Awkward footing made some fights very difficult and then I died in the arena. :(
I placed everthing in a 'jam6' folder, so don't know if that affects anything when playing demos or not....
also, as mentioned, daz and tronyn/ericw's are not in there.
Adib: Pretty cool. Neat visuals, surprisingly good layout. Gorgeous lighting and skybox. Confusing 'mechanic'.
Breezeep: Excellent. Nails the Knave theme perfectly. Cool flow, nice layout, nice monster placement. Overall a very good map. One of my favs.
Daz: Fantastic. Cool layout as well, cool secrets. Loved the elevators. The bridge area was hectic. Final fight was cool, the area reminded me of Tronyn's maps.
EricW & Tronyn: Insanely crazy. Amazing architecture. Too lenient/easy even on skill 3 (!!). Lighting is not very good but architecture, again, is bloody brilliant. Insane scale.
Exhelzar: Good for a first effort, but layout really needs some work. Other than that it was cool, the rampart Shambler even killed me!
Ionous: Finish this. Very cool architecture, but somehow this would've worked better if it were 100% underground. Lots and lots and lots of Vores.
Matecha: Sweet and short, cool brushwork in some places. Make more maps!
Necros: Crazy amazing terrain but it made my computer look like it was about to kick the bucket while I could play EricW and Tronyn's map without any frame drops. Skipped the map when I died, sorry.
Rick: Really cool, but there's no Nailgun? >:(
Makes me excited for your WIP map!
Scampie: It sucks!
Kidding it's fucking great, almost perfect. Hilarious, too! Found 5 secrets! My favorite of the pack.
ShoTro: Not a fan of the layout with extensive backtracking. I like the various locales though!
Tens: Insane, but not Tronyn-like insane. Lovely, crazy map but crazy unbalanced on skills 2-3. Had to cheat.
Warren: Gem in the making. Please finish this!
Will upload demos latr.
yeah, I freaked out in your map when I realised what was happening. For me it's a super memorable map, very cool stuff.
I've played the whole pack but it's too late for a full write-up
Heh, Thanks Skacky.
I wasn't expecting people to praise my map so much.
I Liked Every Map
I was doing blind demos but died often enough to make viewing them insufferable, so I ditched that idea.
My impressions closely resemble others posted here, so no reviews for the sake of brevity (and laziness).
Necros, the aesthetic of your map was the most stand-out to me. very interesting. There is no "best map" to me, since they are all pretty different.
Anyway, great work everyone! Probably my favorite jam so far.
Also: 13 maps is crazy good. Lots of new and promising faces too. Stick around and go map!
since they are all pretty different.
it was very interesting to see everyone's interpretation of what you might think is something very basic; 'fire and brimstone'.
Had time to play one map, went with ItEndsWithTens. Played on Normal because I've not been able to game much in a while, found an over abundance of ammo and a very linear experience, but with enough novelty I really enjoyed it. Got all secrets, but found the quad and pent after killing everything (quad RJed into the nose). Loved the secret in tribute to DaZ.
Congratulations, after almost twenty years, you made a map that was fun and in the theme, yet made me say aloud "I've not played a Quake map like this before."
Thanks for the feedback! I will keep that in mind when expand the map and add some more detail. Probably get rid of one of the rooms entirely.
Good Job Guys!
I have played few maps on my stream: http://www.twitch.tv/grim_fandang0/v/11785885
My thoughts in random order (MINOR SPOILERS):
-= Signati =- by Adib Murad
Small map but nice. I didn't understood what "Break the seals" means, so at the end i was lost for a moment. I even grenade jumped to progress in one place because of that, lol.
-= Of The Flames In The Stars by Breezeep =-
Nice map! I like this kind of level design. Haven't found any secrets ;<
-= Magmapolis by Daz =-
Nice map, unfortunately I knew about few secrets. Final battle is crazy ;D There is some visual glitch near lavafall :O
-= Untitled by Necros =-
Interesting map. It use futuristic theme, so you'll not find any knights there (Iirc Scampie did the same). It was made with OBJ-2-MAP? In few places there were some leaks, mostly visible in dark places.
-= Fallen Phoenix by WarrenM =-
Solid oldschool map = fun! It has some minor texturing problems in few places. Nice final arena.
-= Changes In Fortune by EricW & Tronyn =-
OMG... I hate this map :P I think lava theme was just an excuse to make another gigantic map... ;D Huge, with performance problems in few places + troll secrets! I haven't finish it yet, I got lost :< Halp!
I'll finish rest of the maps tomorrow!
I played a few, here are my skill2 demos.
I fell through the floor on the right hand side at the bottom of your first set of stairs. I can record a demo if you want to see where, although I think you should be able to find it.
Adib: Great looking map, but too much lava death. I don't like the jump'n'run style gameplay in Quake. In this map it feels too much and somewhat unfair. Otherwise solid. Didn't finish it though.
Breezeep: Cool knave map, bit blocky here and there, but that works well with the textures. Just a solid map that was fun to play. Challenge was exactly right on hard.
Daz: Great map. Looks cool, has nice gameplay. Wasted the first quad though... but yeah. That's a given. Invites exploration by not blocking off parts where you can trick jump, although there's little payoff (or I didn't find it).
Working On My Impressions.
I will be posting a document for any and all who want to know my option about each map later to download. I write too much to post here.
4 maps in although EricW & Tronyn... guys, seriously? That map was ridiculously huge beyond belief. I think I broke the map because I ended up attacking a lot of enemies looking the wrong way and got totally lost.
@czg - Yeah, I had a larger idea for the map but took sections out and added a few filler sections to connect between the areas I actually completed. It makes more sense in the larger context of my idea.
@Necros - The void actually broke after weeks of testing on the last build I sent Daz. It was a cooler concept where the lights illuminate as you move through it creating a horror vibe.
@skacky - Yeah, didn't think everyone would be a fan of that, but the level was far too short and it was a good way to tie all the odd assortment of ideas together.
In other words, I couldn't do what I wanted so I did a little bit of everything.
Got stuck on adib's will retry with QS later. I think some platform did nto raise or something. Was locked on a tiny ledge over the lava in the third "shoot down the stone" area.
Breezeep: Absolutely solid knave map, can't think of any criticism.
Is That URL Intentional
Kreathor : Wow you had a rough time! Looks like you didn't notice picking up the Silver Key after the roof top fight either, that definitely needed picking out much better! Hope you enjoyed it though :)
Sleepwalkr : I'll fuck my shit dude! That ambush is perhaps a bit cheap ;) The double KO at the end had me LOL'ing :) I'm happy you found one of the ways to get at the quad. There is another way that let's you get it much earlier! :)
Scampie : typical scampie demo! lol. You were playing normal though, not hard (get rekt noob). The biosuit secret seems to be a mixed bag. Definitely a secret that most people won't know what to do with until their second time through the map, so it's probably a failure in that regard. On the flip side maybe it will make people want to play it again? :)
Thanks for all the demos! Always interesting to watch!
Yeah heard about that bug :( Very, very irritating! Wasn't there until the final compile. sigh!
I might do a bugfix release... or I might not!
My file sizes are too big on the demos so I will release them individually as I get them. It might be preferable for people to download their own instead of everyone's at once.
Adib (Second play through after being squashed in the first room almost immediately & funny/interesting ending):
EricW & Tronyn:
It is somehow 316mb and I do incredibly well for about 30 seconds after the invisibility wears off when I jump back into the giant lake of lava because I suck. If you don't mind I will not post yours unless requested.
@Daz - I think I either watch too many of your videos or I did so well because I ran into issues on your map that my map also suffered from and I exploited the crap out of them. Either way I beat it first try after getting stuck at the beginning as per Spirit's gif. Also part of my map broke on last compile too.
Zip Them, Works Wonders
Dang You Are Right... :-p
"Kreathor : Wow you had a rough time! Looks like you didn't notice picking up the Silver Key after the roof top fight either, that definitely needed picking out much better! Hope you enjoyed it though :)"
Map is good, problem is I'm a noob, lol ;D Still... I have finished it on Hard! *flexing muscles*
Yeah I've totally missed I got a key. This teleportation after battle was kinda confusing, and when realized I have a key I couldn't find the door ;D
Adib: Nice little map. I found all 2 secrets!
Breezeed: Solid knave map. I enjoyed both the visuals and the gameplay. Found only 1 secret=(
Daz: Great! There were minor visual glitches mentioned before, but all the rest was very solid and stylish. I managed to accidently get the quad right after I killed all the monsters in the final battle=)
Ericw/Tronyn: Very impressive! Such a grand scale. I felt like a was playing an ant in the realm of giants.
Exhalzar: Pretty nice for a first map. Keep on mapping!
Matecha: Small but nice. There were some places where it was hard to maneuver tho.
Necros: Looks amazing but feels too empty for its scale to me. I would have places a lot more different monsters there, especially in outdoor area.
Rick: I love castle maps! Very good! But one question: There are nails, but where is the nailgun?
Scampie: omg that was awesome! Looks great, plays great and it's rubilavacon! 2/6 secrets found.
Tronyn & Ericw
If this ledge is one I'm thinking of, it will be deleted in a next version. It's a design flaw, you're not supposed to go there. Scampie did that too, because it actually draws attention.
Or maybe I change a few things to make it playable, part of the fiend fight nearby. Mmmm...
The only thing I did last night was playing Breezeep's and watching Scampie's demo. Need more time to watch everything, give feedback and torture you all with demos of me playing worse than a 10 year old.
@Scampie, thanks for the demo and feedback. It was a blast to see you try to figure what to do. You had the right amount of "dunno what to do" I was expecting for this level. The whole point here is to puzzle the player.
@Breezeep: Yours is a great solid Quake level. If it was in the original iD pak, would be praised as a classic. The original tr00 Quake done right.
Also, I see you thought a floor button near a vore was a seal and tried to break it. It's my design fault, this level should never have a floor button (to be confused with something else), specially one that you accidentally push after teleport.
Some of the secrets in my map require you to look closely at the walls or one of the bookshelves for anything that sticks out.
The classic loose brick, sticky out book secrets, eh? How oldschool :D
Thanks to Daz for organizing this jam and all mappers who took part. I considered taking part too, but since I have some computer issues, I had to pass. (My laptop is in for repairs at the moment. Another computer I am using doesn't have enough GL support for the editors I might have wanted to use.)
So far I've played Adib's, Breezeep's, Daz's and Eric & Tronyn's maps, in alphabetical order. The last one took only about 37 minutes to cpmlete on my third demo, so I think this is enough for today. I have demos for all my playthroughs or attempts, but I will upload them in one batch later.
So, I shall continue tomorrow with Exhelzar's map. I'm avoiding spoilers until then. I've only watched Daz's earlier mapping streams and a tiny bit of Ionous's so I essentially am playing them mostly blindly too.
Fortunately this computer is at least good enough to run Quakespasm and E&T's huge map at decent speed. I might look at those editor issues too, if I have the time. Or I might get my laptop back and not have to worry about this anymore.
Amazing work everyone! I've enjoyed every map so far.
Thoughts And Demos 1... More To Come.
Demos for those mentioned below: https://www.dropbox.com/s/edwgvgix2ufdqlm/jam6-demos1.zip?dl=0
Nice oldskool map design. Brushwork could be a bit more detailed, but considering the amount of time you had it's an awesome job.
Where the ogre bridge is, you could have closed the gate behind the player for extra challenge. The part after was frustrating, because it leads the player to waste all his ammo (like I did) on the hell-knights. It also nullifies their melee attacks. If you want to use them as snipers they're better close. A solution to this could be to make the lava pillars larger, so you don't encounter the hellknights until you're on top of them.
Of the maps that I played so far, this is the only map I didn't die in (at normal skill). I felt you could have teleported some more mobs in at various places in the map after collection of the blue key. Even without any changes it's a really really solid map. Great job.
Really really nice style. Hellish without tonnes of lava.
Really good difficulty balance on normal (didn't play other difficulties). I felt the underwater button should have been shootable, that's just me nitpicky. The zombies don't pose much of a challenge in that area either as they don't target you whilst you're underwater.
I don't know how I derped an missed the door after killing the vore. The ogre room was perfect, I wasn't expecting it and led to my subsequent death. I didn't play beyond this because I didn't really feel like anything else needed to be said, great map man.
Ericw & Tronyn:
What can I say other than this map is really really unforgiving. I really don't know whether I'm supposed to pick off the map room by room or just speed run it. This map isn't really to my taste, I think my old man skills aren't up to scratch either. I gave it a go. I included a demo of one of my many attempts.
What an amazing map. Really good diffoculty on normal. I felt sufficiently challenged. Ammo pickups were just enough, I would have hated to have had any less. Visually this map was quite stunning. Excellent lighting. Great architecture, nice touches in th floors and ceiling (although I kind of thought that the yellow armour pit somehow didn't fit the style, maybe it was a touch cramped). Really good execution. Suprise shambler was... Difficult, but I always felt like I could "win", up until I died :)
Great styling, and really well lit. I love the columnar bassalt styled rocks. Difficulty was pretty spot on for this one. I'm really glad you added the shortcut buttons. Saved quite a bit of travel time. Nothing really to say other than, enjoy watching me fail :)
Excellent job, visually excellent. Such a shame you can't have falling lava. I felt that ammo was a touch scarce, which was the reason for my demise in one of my attempts as I couldn't shoot the rock shard required to progress :(
Mob placement was perfect, the scrags at the start, vores were perfectly frustrating, as were the zombies (I wore a grenade to the face thanks to these bastards). The shambler makes you panic if you jump to the RL before aggroing him. One criticism would be the falling rocks are frustrating to jump off / land in a stable manner. I felt that a flat top or some kind of clip texture (not sure if this is possible) would help with this. Unless this was planned to frustrate the player in which case, great job =P
I really want to play this map with a mod that allows sinking lava now.
In your first level you already got visual consistency. Feels like you're comfortable with the theme. Still looks very boxy, but promising: pretty path thru lava in the first room, good texture choices overall, and the masterpiece: that graveyard's fence and gate. I see you didn't force the player to visit the graveyard, you can finish the level without even see it, which is a shame. A design decision up for debate. By all means, keep it up.
Thanks, man :)
You're right about the rocks. If you noticed, the one at scrags' room has a little step to make it easy to climb. I should work on the other ones too. There's no gameplay reason to keep them unstable.
I didn't give up on raising lava filling one last room yet. But you said "sinking lava" and that's a good idea as well. A room that raises, simulating the lava sinking, revealing enemies and passages.
I thought you wanted the main room to have sinking lava as you progressed over the jumps and shot the rocks.
"I thought you wanted the main room to have sinking lava as you progressed over the jumps and shot the rocks. "
Ohhh that would be cool!
Haven't Played Yet
But is it safe to say this jam is the best jam since Mrs Beeton's strawberry jam?
I owe you apologies. When I saw your first screenshots, specially that freaky... traffic light device (??) it was too much for my square mind. I didn't get it. But what do I know? You created unique gameplay (like or not) and a very very bold move on the layout and looks. "Very Bold Move" could be the name of the level, but even its name is neat the way it is.
Reminds me Zeno Clash looks.
Beautiful lava effect in the end.
The only thing I'd change is that golden key + button.
Detour Possible Spoiler
You will notice there is one secret in the map, but so far it seems no one is taking the time to find it. Coincidently, no one seems to reach the upper level with a nailgun.
I thought I was making it easy to find the secret by using one of the most common tricks ever to trigger it. You know, like a red, blinking, shootable button on the ceiling, or something like that.
I guess I failed. I blame running out of time to test. Yeah, that's it.
Not finding the secret isn't a problem on skill 1, but it can make skill 2 pretty difficult.
Demos, Part 2
OK, I went to the end of the list working backwards to those guys some attention before the end of today.
Demos part 2:
Fallen.dem - WarrenM - The map turned out looking great! I was coasting through it without problems until near the end. Beat it, but it caught me off guard.
Untitled.dem - Necros - Huge and incredible looking map. On the easier side of things but I enjoyed it.
Daysinthefire.dem - Scampie - I knew this had the fire, but I questioned the brimstone... oh how I should have never questioned the brimstone!!! Watch me fail at platforming in this demo. Great all around... even has a geometry based creature like I wanted:
Detour.dem - Rick - The dripping ceiling had me cheering when I noticed it. Very atmospheric and great execution. Beat it with no ammo left. Short but very tense.
Igneous.dem - Matecha - This map may be small but it freaking nails the atmosphere of the theme. I am jealous of your map edges. :-p
Princess.dem - ItEndsWithTens - O_o* I started the map and lost my shit for a second then realized I didn't start a demo for your map after the shock subsided. Those totems man... I knew once I saw those we were in for a treat. On the critical side, after the first totem I knew all I had to do is run away to turn the tide of each encounter. You will see that a lot in my demo.
Download as a RAR here:
Seriously? I looked for one, but I guess not hard enough. I will have to go through one more time once I get the last two maps down.
Well, it's not blatantly obvious. You do have to be in the general vicinity before it can be seen.
It's too bad I didn't think to give either shells or spikes at the end, depending on whether the secret had been found. Well, I did think of it, but not until after it was released :)
Someone quoted a Valve guy here in the forums, saying the biggest level design challenge is to make the player look up. It's happening here.
I think that's true. Maybe part of the problem is not giving the player a reason to look up...in the right spot.
You can't really see that there's a secret until it's triggered. Instead of hiding the rising walkway under the lava, I should have positioned it so that it was just out of the lava enough to see, but not high enough to get back up. Then the player might be motivated to look for a way to raise the walkway. Ah well, better next time.
Lovely tight map, I enjoyed the stalactite use. My only annoyance was with items being placed in such a way that you had to pick them up. For example the teleporter at the bottom brings you back up on top of the 25 health by the exit, so it is easily wasted if you took a bit of fall damage. The yellow armor doesn't seem to be optional, and I had just picked up a green armor which was yet to receive any scratches. Found one secret. Hope to see more from you.
Not exactly in keeping with the incendiary aesthetic of the village, but it has its charm. Some very good fights here (the underwater Scrag fight in particular). The level looked great, but it had some awkward texture transitions: the arch with the dagger, the dagger point seemed to be floating out there, as the underside didn't match at all, numerous arches used a very stylized trim with no transition brush for when it encountered a differently textured wall, there were a lot of texture changes where the surface was exactly aligned with a different textured surface (the bookshelves for example). Offsetting things can help a lot with textures that depict geometry deeper than an inch or so. Obviously such things are the first (and best) thing to suffer in a map jam.
The area you fall into with the wind tunnel seemed a little too direct mechanically. "Push these buttons on opposite walls, now go in here and push this button, now cross the room and leave." It felt videogamey in a way that drew me out.
I did not find a single secret, and I spent another map's worth of play time hunting for them after exiting the level. I ran through numerous times bumping against and shooting every surface that looked like a potential trigger. I bounced grenades into places I couldn't reach. Nothing. I did see one area I couldn't get into, the library above the flooded section, but other than that I had no inkling as to where the secrets were or what they contained.
I'm not sure why you put clip brushes on the alcoves to the right of the stairs up to the drop to the silver key, but it really threw me off (I was secret hunting and was really surprised when I couldn't get through there).
I'm not trying to nitpick, just hopefully giving you action items, because I'd love to see more from you based on this :)
Mini Reviews, Part 1
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the jam. I enjoyed all the maps. You all did better than me because you made the deadline (my map will come out, sometime...) Here are some thoughts and demos.
A nice idea with the seals being not just a button to press but stepping-stones to reach new areas. I liked the vertical layout and the tight spaces with lava. Falling in is an ever-present hazard but not annoyingly so (I did fall in lava on my demo in the last room). Good rocky areas, good lighting and
texturing and a nice end battle. My main complaint is that it could have all tied together more rather than just being separate rooms reached from a hub full
A wonderful insane lava castle and the most pure interpretation of the fire and brimstone theme. The cylinder-based rock detail in the main area is unique in style, it must have taken ages and looks great but it might have been better to spend a little less time there and more detailing the fairly boxy corridors
on the approach to the gold key. The main area gave my computer indigestion on which I'm going to blame my performance in the big rooftop battle where my demo ends... I'm going to spend a bit of time exploring this map properly to find more of the secrets, it's the sort of map that is worth a good look around.
The start map was also cool, a cheeky lava takeover of the original.
An enjoyable little map. Although quite basic in detail and texturing it keeps your interest with varied gameplay. There are cramped corridor fights, the large vertical space of the main room, a bit of lava jumping and the beginnings of a set-piece with the large bridge. It might have been better if, after pressing the button to lower the bridge, the player was led to it by a trail of fresh monsters, and the same at the end to get to the silver door. The map
was too small to get lost in but if it had been larger I might have had trouble remembering how to get to those places (and I hope you do make more and larger maps). I appreciated the lighting on this map, it added a lot of sombre atmosphere without ever being too dark to see.
Like most of the bsp2 maps (or whatever format it is) I'm going to have to wait for a computer upgrade before I can enjoy this. Judging from the first area it looks fantastic though, like a molten lava blend of A Roman Wilderness of Pain and The Masque of the Red Death...
Actually I might try it at the weekend with the RMQ engine, since that worked for me with "Something Wicked This Way Comes." Since it's Tronyn you can assume I will like it.
A lot of samey corridors but at least they're huge weird corridors with masses of detail on the walls and ceilings. A strange alien temple type vibe. Another map
like jam6_adib which adds something to the basic button pushing with some kind of weird lava field thing. Perhaps I would have liked to see that connect somehow to the pyramids in the large outdoor area. Found 2 secrets.
Nice sense of exploration and mystery here. I missed the nailgun and had to run past the last monsters to the exit. Not necessarily a bad thing, it creates a nice sense of panic, so long as you can complete the map...
This map really follows the theme of "fire and brimstone" well with its corrupted graveyard theme. Nice lighting and texturing. Short but sweet. An advantage of small maps is you can build a fully 3d fence! The end of the map was quite abrupt, I think I missed exploring an area although I still had all the kills. It was strange, after commenting on daz's cylindrical rock style, to see it again here, is this the new trend?
Mini Reviews, Part 2
I understand that this was largely a tech demo for the new rock style, which was awesome. It could easily be used to create some sort of bio-mechanical setting as well as just rocks. I would love to see a fully developed map in this style. The buildings were great, they produced that crucial urge to explore and looked straight out of the concept art provided for the map jam. I think though that better textures are available than those from Doom and Quake 2 and
the interiors were a little dark. My demo ends abruptly because my pc overheated, but it's near the end.
A beautiful map. Loved the cameo appearance by the Rubicon 2 robot. I was going to complain that a base map with lava falls short on the "fire and brimstone" theme, but the Cthons made up for that. Why not more Cthons in this jam? My Demo goes up to the first Cthon... This map would stand alone the best out of the pack as just a full scale high quality map.
I admit that I didn't think much of the screenshots for this map, but I eat my words because this is one of those maps that shoves through any complaints about detail or style with its gleeful fun and insanity. The cavern is madly ambitious and I felt like a fly inside a rotting Halloween pumpkin. Love the
eyes on the large totem, the first time they moved I thought I was just being paranoid. Perhaps the most pure fun map here.
The visuals and smooth, varied gameplay bode well for future releases. A simple knave map is a wise choice for (I'm assumming) a first release and I should probably make one myself rather than all my quickly abandoned mega-projects. However the map didn't really have anything to do with fire and brimstone, apart from one or two lava pools.
I love the ruined castle, the jam was in need of some non-linearity and it reminded me of a number of great exploratory maps from the past. It looks great and feels eerie but just needs a few secrets to give more incentive to explore. I like the "border" on the lava lake, I don't think I've seen that before. It
acknowledges the limitations of Quake in doing open areas without just having the lake abruptly stop like many maps do. The second underground part of the map seemed a bit rushed, as I expect it was. I missed quite a few monsters, despite there being no secret areas. I assume they appeared somewhere like that armour I didn't pick up.
Unfortunately I had to play this in winquake as my framerate was so bad in quakespasm. This ruined all your careful coloured lighting! The framerate was still quite bad though so it might not be just my computer's fault. Sorry but no demo for this map as I kept falling in lava early on and just wanted to finish it with quicksaving, having spent all evening on these maps.
Enough grumbling though, because I really liked the map and it might even be my favourite from the jam. It reminded me of Tronyn, with its whimsical architecture and large areas with generous mobs of enemies. I don't know why people are complaining about the inconsistent style. Even if there wasn't
clearly some sort of inter-dimensional nonsense going on, Quake should be accomodating of weirdness and surrealism. There were plenty of cool little touches
too, like the arena with enemies running up out of the lava. I completed it with enough ammo on hard despite not finding any secret ammo. I did find a secret biosuit that didn't lead to any other items, was this a joke or did I miss something?
In conclusion, an excellent map jam, especially for new mappers. Hopefully we'll get them back next time with some more of the old hands who were missing to create the best map jam yet.
@SleepwalkR - Hahaha, just saw you playing, sorry for that. You were just about to finish the level, but didn't get to that teleport, it's crazy! Like Enliten said, those rocks could be easier to jump on and off. I can see you're not into jumping, but you're right: those ledges need work. Thanks for the patience.
@ShoTro You nailed it! Nailed that first vore. With a really big nail. I thought nobody would do that. Your escape from the Shambler were ruined by the same problem: jumps from those rocks should be easier.
@scarecrow Agreed about the mandatory items. Straight to my to-do list.
@tomb Thanks. People keep jumping on that ledge. My design failed miserably there.
Embarassing myself at Scampie's, Necro's, Warren's, Matecha's and Rick's:
The application was unable to start correctly (0xc0000022). Click OK to close the application.
Quakespasm win64 will not run on my windows 7 computer.
Try either re-downloading and extracting (make sure to overwrite any existing DLL's), try both quakespasm.exe and quakespasm-sdl2.exe, or try the above with the 32-bit version.
The DLL's can be a pain since they can conflict with other engines (e.g. Darkplaces)
Thank You Guys!
@tomb And Adib
@tomb - Thanks for the compliment. I know how to optimize the lighting and stuff to fix some of your performance problems, I am going to see how the deadline is for DLC and hopefully put out an extended optimized version of the map. As my first map, my method for creating geometry needs work. It was kind of a rush to finish at the end.
Glad you liked the lava "arena" idea, it was the first thing that I thought of and it sadly was put into an almost unfinished area.
@adib - I tried to kill those damned scrags too. I actually did on my fourth attempt when I actually beat the map. I also crushed half the hell knights with one of them as well, definitely helps you beat the level with more ammo.
The enviro secret is all that there is. It is so you can recover cells from the acid or kill anything that falls in easily. I was going to add something else, but didn't have the time, it was far more critical when the end game was harder as you wanted to conserve cells throughout the level to make short work of the shalrath and shambler at the end.
Sorry For Spamming: Demos Part 3
abyss.dem - exhelzar - Nice short map with a simple texture scheme. The bridge idea was neat but the constant narrow hallway combat was a pain. Hell knights and platforming seems kind of punishing. I died trying to stay on one of the rocks as the HK shots went high instead of low and knocked me around.
gehennae.dem - ionous - As awesome as it was looking during your twitch broadcast! Really love the look and feel. In my demo I abuse how large this map is to a fair degree.
fromashes.dem - ShoTro - The most colorful map in the jam. Too much ammo and health given at the end. :-p
Get them here:
We've Been Quaddicted <3
Thanks For The Demos :)
Tomb and AAS.
AAS holy shit man your first run through the map was hilarious. 1hp!!! Glad there was some health left for you to top yourself up :)
"We've Been Quaddicted"
The whining in that thread is a little annoying. Free maps for a 20 year old game ... and you're complaining ? Eat a barge of dicks.
kept dying due to sliding off ledges into lava.
the last section i dumbly agro'd all the fiends/hell knights and the shambler to grab the rocket launcher.
a schoolboy error...
one step at a time seems to work if you want to survive.
i managed to nail the shambler with the overhanging rock first time (with help from the mega health secret).
other runs were not too successful :(
the vore was slightly easier to nail with the rock earlier on, you just have to do it sooner rather than later.
i enjoyed it once i managed to control my slippery footwork . it felt like i was drunk wearing a pair of pradas :0
Warren, I'm used to users. And the kind of users that can get you fired, not some 11 year old brat, probably Spirit's nephew. I'm too dazzled about being published, I'd hug any troll.
again, only one last secret to find.
i'll have to start making notes what number each secret is.
my first run i was really tired, and i slipped off into the lava :(
i played on skill 3
not too hard, although the one suit of armor i had was wearing a bit thin.
i'm looking forwards to replaying so i can find out the best time for using the quad.
the red armor one was a bastard!
i was lucky in the sense that i had just found the rocket launcher secret, as i don't see a way to get it otherwise?
normal grenades? :p
a great map, i really like the angular architecture and the lava veins running through the brickwork.
Yes, I can work the jumps better. The vore is easier to crush with the stalactite, the fiends are harder to crush, and you crushed the harder one, because the stalactite is inset in a hole. Requires health and yellow armor to resist one or two shocks while "come here kitty kitty... step forward... bang!"
Re: Performance Of My Map
just to be clear, my map was really just an excuse to experiment with the obj2map tool. It is essentially one giant box room with the terrain floating inside. It is sealed but unvised with like 17k wpoly + 15k epoly (so over 30k faces in total) if you go in a corner and look at the whole map.
so those complaints are somewhat justified...
otoh, in 2015, i kinda don't give a shit about limits or anything anymore. :P I have an old intel i5 with an ancient geforce gts250 and I can run the map smoothly. I use my old hardware as my benchmark for what is slow considering how old it all is.
I played through the pack yesterday, and enjoyed the everloving shit out of it! Before I offer any specific feedback I'm going to go play through everything again to refresh my thoughts, and maybe see if I can come up with some more substantial comments for everybody.
I took the liberty of recording video and commentary of my playthroughs, but there's a bit of audio mixing and video compression work I have to do before I can get those up on Youtube, so in the meantime here are the demos I recorded simultaneously: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eb9zbuw8h9jb99y/AAAf7XEISFXL4fbQGeF7fBoXa?dl=0
You can download the "-all" archive to get everything, but it's a 36MB file that expands to over 750, so be prepared. If you just want the demos for a particular map, you can find those in the folder too. I used 7-Zip to keep file sizes down, but if you need a different format let me know and I'll upload whatever you prefer. Also be warned some maps have several demos (sorry, adib, I was really out of it at the start), since I'm not exactly a Top Tier Professional Gamer.
As for my own map, first off, for anyone who skipped the readme, doesn't care about Twitter, and hasn't seen the link in Mike Taylor's Quaddicted review, I made heavy use of a reference image for this map, "Tower of Evil" by Xueguo Yang: http://yangxueguo.deviantart.com/art/Tower-of-evil-342477532
I first saw the painting several years ago in reference to Beksinski-style artwork, and have wanted to do something like it since. "Fire and Brimstone" seemed like the perfect opportunity.
Responding to specific comments:
necros: I appreciate the sentiment, but you died several times because I don't have any friends (I could stop the sentence right here) who play Quake and the map didn't get tested. I played it on Easy, Normal and Hard until I was blue in the face, trying desperately to balance it as best I could, but there's no substitute for another pair of eyes. Especially giant creepy ones.
scar3crow: That comment made my day, thank you! I wasn't sure what to do about ammo, I felt like things might have been okay at an earlier stage but figured what felt right to me would be too difficult for others. I know the map inside and out and one's work is usually easier for oneself than for the players, so I added a few packs of ammo. Again, textbook lack of testing. I also wanted to add some kind of fun secret you could access with the pent/quad combo, but by the time I realized I could it was close to the deadline and my polycounts were scraping the recommended max in a couple areas, so I scrapped the idea. I hadn't thought you'd have enough powerup time to get to the nose, though, I should have thrown something in there.
adib: No apologies necessary! Considering how poorly I performed in your map, and how many demos I had to record to get through it, I'd say we're even. :) Could you explain what you mean about the key and button? I wasn't thrilled with them, exactly, but I wanted the lift to be locked at first for a little "you can't get in here yet, go find the macguffin" gameplay and couldn't come up with a replacement. Is there another way you'd suggest I could get the same type of thing?
ShoTro: That's one of those glaring issues I was aware of but couldn't solve in time. Not just running away from the things, but running in such a direction and to such a position that you end up telefragging one of the enemies that pop in (namely the Shambler). Maybe if I'd started with a longer delay on the first totem, then shortened it each time? That setup, however, made me worry about too much of a wait between approaching the first one and seeing some kind of result. I tried to bridge the gap with text, which was nice for pacing but ruined the atmosphere since it had the effect of explicitly defining the totems and/or face as sentient beings that were aware of you. Getting rid of the text altogether made the whole thing ambiguous, and a lot more like the mood I was going for, so I stuck with that and tightened up the delays. But I guess that's putting the cart before the horse.
Sure. A door that "opens" in the right direction looks exactly like a button. You should just make a door that requires the gold key and looks / opens like a button, also triggering the plat.
When the door activates, it activates the plat.
P.S.1: loved that artist.
P.S.2: What is charming and vivid about your level is that you saw that painting and then vigorously slapped the frakking thing together to do it. Shamelessly, fearless. You have my respect. Looking forward for more.
Oh, okay, I got it. Yeah, I agree that'd be nicer. I tried that at first, as a matter of fact, but ran into some sort of problem using just a gold key door as the button; no doubt it was some misconfiguration, or misunderstanding of Quake entities in my early experimentation. Once I had that goofy covering in place and working, I just never thought to go back and try again.
Thanks for the comments, I would say less "shameless" and more "shameless ripoff", but I'm humbled nonetheless. :P
I've now completed the maps up to Necros' map, which did not seem to lag at all on my computer. I could see that I got much worse, but still playable, framerates on the big EricW & Tronyn map.
This might be a little surprising because people who complained about the map lagging probably have much better graphics hardware. I'm stuck for a little while with a computer not suitable for any kind of modern game, but I'm glad that Quakespasm still runs well.
I think I have five maps to go for tomorrow. I will then upload my demos to Quaketastic. Can anyone suggest how I should package them to not make the download too big for people who just want to see how I played their map?
I'll think about that when I have tried all the maps. Probably I'll just split them into a few different clearly named archives if that appears necessary. Maybe they will compress well and I won't need to do that.
When I first approach a map I am in "debug" mode. Thinking about how to break the thing and reach the end as efficiently as possible. I played through it and my son played through it and still had a blast although standing your ground when the Shambler arrives is a fairly loosing proposition. I think you would have to shut off the areas in order to prevent running or have something slow the player down so the enemies could react. Spawn 1 creature immediately at the exit using a larger trigger then the rest on a delay. Or a wall and a counter. But I am very jealous of the map, it executed several things I thought of but didn't have the time nor the talent to do in this Jam. Kudos
is the way to go for demos, it'll compress a GB of demos down to 10MB or so.
My demos, total mess, enjoy! Blame Quakespasm not being as awesome as reQuiem for the filenames. :P
Great maps, all of you.
916 MB of demos in 35 MB of 7z (^ would have been 70 MB as zip, 33 as xz): http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/mapjam6-spirit.7z
Exhelzar: Nice little old school map. It's a bit boxy and bland of course, but it's a fun little romp.
ionous: Great map with nice setpieces. The architecture is positively huge and made me feel like a small insignificant piece of human meat sniffing around in the forbidden elder world. Great stuff. Some monster placement was pretty ineffective though, if there's anything to criticize, it's that. You'll see in my demo what I mean.
ItEndsWithTens: Very refreshing, creative map. I don't like the overall look, but the gadget idea (eyes) more than makes up for it. Had some nice fights in here, esp. using voreballs to gib zombies.
Hope to see more from Exhelzar and ItEndsWithTens in the future!
spirit: you forgot sc2.dem! scum troll!
I Forgot To Record It
"916 MB of demos in 35 MB of 7z (^ would have been 70 MB as zip"
So instead of being inconsequential it would have been negligible. Gotcha. ;)
Thanks For The Awesome Pack!
skill 1 demos:
no ending for scampie's map playthrough, unfortunately, cause i was an idiot :(
noticed a major issue on jam6_shotro: it's possible to get stuck in the dark maze, because the exit door can only be opened once.
necros' map worked just fine, fps have never dropped below 60 there on my 2010 hardware. had around 50 fps on tronyn's/ericw's map.
Ionous: Great looking map and unlike retrojam3 map, this one wasn't cramped and dark! The outdoor area felt unfinished comparing to indoor sections tho. Anyway, this one played well and was uber detailed. I liked that almost every room had something to look at thru the floor.
Shotro: I have mixed feelings about this one. It was really hard, I died a lot in this map. Also I think I managed to break this map: in the area with 2 ambushes with monsters coming out of lava I retreated to the first isle during the second ambush and when I killed all 4 monsters the bridges moved down to the lava leaving me alone standing on the first isle. I had to noclip to the the next isle to continue my plot (bridges came back when I reached the second isle). Also I felt a little confused in the area with biosuit secret: it took me some time to figure out what to do to proceed.
I liked that I managed to make a lot of infighting in this map, especially in the final area. So keep on mapping to produce more maps!
ItEndsWithTens: That weird but in a good way! Those eyes!!! They were watching me! I really liked the style and the atmosphere of this map and it played well. I want more of this=)
WarrenM: This one was an eyecandy. It was a pleasure to look at this map but it played not that interesting. And 0 secrets! What a shame. Playing this I got a thought that it would had been nice to make a map without monsters at all that had a great focus on visuals and had some exploration/traps gameplay.
Plus some more thoughts about other impressive maps for me:
I had a feeling that Daz's map had a lot of giant references to rpgsp1 hanging from ceiling=)
I wish Tronyn's/Ericw's map to be re-released with more subtle lighting and a bit rebalanced since I found it was rather easy on normal in the first part due to lots of megahealth and red armor.
Re-played Scampie's map on hard and managed to find 2 more secrets - 4/6. Really loved the lighting in this one. I think I need to add Chthon to my future map.
Man, you mastered my level. You jumped from that ledge back to the rock. You missed a secret, but wow.
Quaddicted DL Link OK For Everyone?
FWIW, I've twice tried to download this from Quaddicted (using Chrome on Win10). I get an invalid zip archive -- can't be opened by native unzip or by 7-zip. I'm not sure about what the first DL attempt ended up as, but this second one has a size of 77,261,648 bytes and an md5sum of d2284a5038aca3a8ec4a0e2de3773526.
The download from Quaketastic works OK for me so I'ma go with that. It's a little bigger than the one from Quaddicted so I'm assuming that I'm getting an incomplete DL for some reason...
@path0gen And @Pulsar
@path0gen - Oi! I will have to fix that. I had another mechanism in place until a few days out and replaced it with a similar button for constancy... oddly I fixed the first button but not that one. Damn.
@Pulsar - Thanks for the critique. I knew I didn't like that encounter for a reason. It is my favorite idea followed by my least favorite encounter in my map that created a lot of risk which made me uneasy leaving it in. Just because I couldn't find the issue doesn't mean other people wouldn't. :-p (it was also easy to exploit)
Reviews Part 1
Well my Ericw/Tronyn video is in several pieces, and will need some TLC to be ready for public consumption. The first two are done, though, so I've decided to upload and post these a few at a time. Keep an eye on this Youtube playlist, I'll update it over the coming days: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoGPuWBXfT0e_7Tebm1-vkckkykG1OEbf
I played the maps in order, and as I've said I was a bit out of sorts at the start, so I have to apologize; though I suppose some criticisms are warranted, my difficulty playing was mostly on me.
As others have noted, it's a little hard to jump from some of those rocks, and the map was a bit cramped for my taste, but it's an interesting style being so up close with enemies like this. I got a huge kick out of seeing your stalactites, I've always loved what people would build out of func_doors, trains and the like in Quake. Vehicles, brush based monsters, falling rocks, it's fun to see what mappers can invent with these tools.
You've got a gorgeous skybox, excellent choice, especially in combination with your lighting. The fade up to blue toward the top suits your sky exquisitely, and the color still has me almost thinking the rock walls are bump or normal mapped from a distance.
"My map's gonna suck", are you kidding me? I'll grant the theme wasn't as strong as some other entries, but this was a beautiful map with a more than solid design.
Architecturally I love the nice, cozy feel of the place, I got a great sense of "arcane library" from your brushwork and lighting. The texture choices, too; I was particularly struck by the handful of empty shelves, I feel like I never see that in videogame libraries. Makes the place feel more alive, like it's still being filled up. I haven't played this Contract Revoked everybody's talking about, but I'll be getting around to that post haste after seeing what it inspired.
If I had a criticism, I guess I'd like a little more vertical progression. I feel like that's become a lot more common over the years, and I've seen a lot of it in these jams, but I'm not tired of it yet. There's something immensely satisfying about a good climb.
Demos - Tens & Spirit
@Spirit - Your play through was thoroughly enjoyable. I am going to have to adopt leaving comments on demos. I can not believe the little touch to adjust the height of the alter after the first elevator to let the dogs hit the player actually helped kill someone! Also... mad grenade jumping skills on the platforming section to recover from the "lie". It was so funny how you almost saw two secrets with megahealth in your playthrough but also missed most of the health packs by not looking directly at them. Super surprised that you got past the (MDK) maze with only 3 health EVERY SINGLE TIME. Fun demo.
@Tens - The map punishes rushing which got you a few times (Skip enemies in a loop and the next time gets harder). I gasped every time you backed up towards a shear cliff edge during your demos. I don't think you realized you do that a lot. I also saw you twitch when the dogs startled you. Awesome.
- The map needs some tweaking and expanding
- Some things are broken/exploitable
- Dogs == Least expected and least noticed enemy chipping on players health (yay!)
- Encounters play out differently in each demo
- Everyone kind of freaks out the first time an enemy jumps the lava pit in the hub
- Everyone's demo so far had a WTF moment when something I planned to create that reaction works as expected. Mission accomplished.
Going To Start Broadcasting Soon...
Probably an hour or two of working on finishing my jam6 map, then finally playing jam6. I haven't played any of the maps yet, so have mostly been avoiding this thread.
Holy Fucking Crap.
What a great pack. Uploading demos as I type.
Three things stood out with this jam:
1. The theme-adherence is superb. Everyone put the effort in to capture "fire and brimstone" in their own way.
2. The theme-variety is superb. Everyone has their own different interpretation while sticking to the theme well. From subtle hints of lava to all out flaming volcano-fests, base to medieval, indoor to terrain.
3. The "new" mappers all did the theme really well in their own ways AND all of them show great potential for future maps, whether they had a simple but refined design or a crude but epic idea, the potential quality is there for all to see.
Crude Comments From Straight After I Played:
Lovely little map. Quite cartoony lighting but nicely done overall. Cool gameplay and design.
Good style and designs, solid gameplay, quite boxy but shows a lot of promise. Secrets desperate.
Very cool, great arena, love the exploration and nooks and crannies. Needs more octagonal rocks. A pleasure to wander aimlessly around.
The usual demented cacophony of textures and proportions married to a fantastic design and scale to provide another unrefined but butt-numbingly irresistable epic experience.
Good theme/textures. Real nice lighting. Quite simple (gameplay too) and boxy but the "dark castle" style could go far.
Very refined and stylish. I like the contrast of it being "lighter" than other maps. Cables were very cool. It perhaps didn't have as strong a hook as it could. Gameplay rocked.
Good style, proper fire and brimstone, kinda messy / unpolished designs, again shows good promise.
Holy fucking terrain batman! Stunning little design. A bit dark and needed more gameplay but the style is great.
Cool epic designs, got a good feeling of being part of somewhere dramatic. Not sure about purple fog. Died twice trying to get back from SSG, and once just running through, so gave up!
Absolutely wonderful. This really felt like a true early level in a proper Quake/Q2-style game, loved it. 98% perfect, throw in a couple of Vores near the end and it would be 100%
Some good ideas although too big and incoherent. Would have been good to stick with a smaller area and refine it.
Bonkers. Cool rockwork, cool OTT-scale arena, interesting combo of designs, a bit random though. Head with nicely done but didn't really fit. Industrial stuff better. Showed a LOT of promise, you could do wonders with this start.
Love the rocks - mesmerising. Upper area very cool and atmospheric, lower area seemed a bit of an after thought. Good fun gameplay.
The file is intact and I can download it fine. Please post anything you can think of as factors in https://www.quaddicted.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=266
Played A Couple More This Morning
Shambler: You are the first I've seen to not kill the Cthons, congrats on unlocking the pacifist achievement!
You were supposed to kill them? Didn't even think of that, I just enjoyed the DRAMA!
You don't have to, you just can... It's why the gold key says "...it bleeds..."
Map Thoughts Part 2
I really liked you map. The lava fall receding was genius, as was the giant googly eyed thing. I don't think I've ever laughed as much at geometry in a quake map before. Gameplay was solid, although I sort of felt that there was something missing tying the areas together. I dunno, let me think on it, it might dawn on me what it is. Great work!
Neat and short little map. Design was nice, although the mob glitches were strange. The light plinths although novel confused me as I had just played maps that have plinths as switches (not that you could have known this). Difficulty was not very challenging on normal, I didn't play on other difficulties to see the scaling. I probably would have died more (like my axe skills? lol). A "the pentagram portal has been activated" message would have helped idiots like myself who missed the exit. Otherwise, excellent map, love the first area and the last area. The lava pit area felt a little lacking in comparison. awesome work none-the-less.
Lighting and mood is A+ for this map. A minor criticism, that others may disagree with is that falling into lava (near super shotgun) is waaaay punishing. Shallow lava here would have given the player the punishment for failing without death. But I suck at platforming in 3d games, so there is that :/
That aside, if I didn't feel constrained by time to play everybody's levels I would play the shit out of this level, or even a bigger variation of it. Excellent mob placement, I felt that the ogres could have been placed a little closer to the door. Perfect vore placement, this is serously my most hated enemy alongside those blue blobby things.
Love the falling fireballs, I ended up finishing the level after this record. I ran out of ammo again, still couldnt find the nailgun, lol. I ended up making the ogres kill the shambler. Excellent work :)
I felt the whole time like I was playing an Id map. I felt the map was a touch too easy on normal difficulty, until I reached the turret. That turret destroyed me. I still don't know what I'm supposed to do with it. I dunno man, just a solid solid map, and I didn't even finish it. It really has that, "hell on earth" feel. So yeah, that's all the feedback I can give really. Great work!
I have a bit of constructive criticism for this map. First let's go with the good stuff, I love the individual themes. Really like the ogre / scrag / pillar area with the blue key, love the village (although this could use a little more variety).
I dislike pitch black areas in maps. In reality, if there is even a small amount of lights in a room, you'll be able to (just barely) make out the shadows. Having said that, the maze area is excellent, so take what I say with a grain of salt here.
I like the early arena area, but hate the transition between that and the blue key area. I don't feel like enforcers quite fit the theme in this map, but having said that they do add challenge that soldiers don't provide.
The map itself lacks polish in many areas. Obviously there were time constraints and a map this large is going to take a lot of time to get the finish correct. I feel like you've got a lot of good concepts in this map which each would make excellent maps in their own rights. However because of the feel of each section are so different from one another the transitions between them are clunky.
The map is hard, I ran out of ammo on a few occasions on normal. (maybe I should have played on easy ;)
I really want to play this again with the lighting smoothed out, geometry polished and the area transitions fitting the areas a touch better.
With a bit more work this could be a really excellent map.
Excellent excellent map. The obj2map capabilities really shone through here. Maybe I should say your ability really shone through here, lol. Really balanced gameplay and feel. I played on normal and thought it could have been a touch harder. The shambler fight was a bit obvious and a bit easy, kind of fish in a barrel stuff. Otherwise I loved every part of this level. Excellent work.
Probably my favourite map of this jam. I liked how the skill jumps don't overly punish you for failing. I like the non linearity of the level. The map is balanced and gorgeous. Only criticism is that it's too easy to exploit the line of sight on the last two shamblers. I want to play more of it!
Nothing more to say, awesome work!
Demos of me failing and rage quitting your maps:
That turret destroyed me. I still don't know what I'm supposed to do with it.
Don't worry, some others had some issues too. It's a bit of a stretch on my behalf to try and make people recognize exactly what this enemy is, and even that it is meant to be an enemy in the first place! He is meant to be a miniboss. This is the sort of thing I try to do in a mapjam, trying to make a unusual trick work.
I am mostly hoping players recognize that he is an oversized brushmodel version of the Dalek robot monsters from Rubicon2, and that they realize that shooting it will eventually kill it.
Strategy wise, the intended way you fight it is to simply strafe back and forth behind the boxes shooting it. The lasers shoot at where you are, but generally if you just keep moving, they won't hit you.
The unintended scum strategy is to get behind one of the boxes, and slightly back up until you can see the top of Megafloyd's head, but he can't shoot over the box, and just cheese him to death.
And Your Demos, Gentlemen
I have now played every map and recorded demos. Some maps took multiple tries, and have thus multiple demos. Demos that end in letters QL are continued after a quickload instead of starting from the beginning.
I used a Linux command-line utility to create this archive. It should be compatible with the Windows 7-Zip program, but if you have any trouble, let me know.
Mappers who don't want to download and extract an archive of about 32 MB can e-mail me instead. My address is in my profile. Mail me, and I can put just the demos you want for upload somewhere else for a short period of time. (Not that I think 32 MB is troublesome for anyone.)
The contents of the archive are:
As you can see, I added a superfluous d in front of [d]Eric's name. That was accidental, but since I only noticed afterwards I let it be.
I enjoyed myself a lot playing these. I started using saves and loads towards the end because I wanted to get them done today, but I will definitely want to revisit most of the maps to hunt for secrets and explore the parts I didn't get to explore properly.
As usual, I was really bad at finding the secrets in my first runs. I really only get a couple here and there. I even forgot some of the ones I watched Daz create during his mapping streams, so good work, self.
Some of my favorite parts were:
Dropping the rocks in Adib's map. Seeing afterwards that I could have dropped a few of them earlier for more effective results.
Monsters jumping to join the end fight in Daz's map. Rocky formations in same.
Wondering if that thing up there is level geometry or skybox in EricW & Tronyn's map. It was of course part of the level. And then there was more.
Using the rocket launcher in the same map.
Ionous' map had a good feel to it, and some delightfully tough combat encounters. Probably my second favorite of the bunch. Maybe a tie with Daz's one.
Necros' map looked good, but was a bit too dark in some parts.
Rick's map was fun to play. I ran out of ammo on my first try, so I tried to be frugal in further runs. All kinds of things happened in them, but I enjoyed it all a lot.
Scampie's map is probably my favorite in this pack. It flows well and has some unexpected twists in just the right places. It looks great.
While some maps might lack polish, they all have good parts and I enjoyed myself a lot. Thanks again to everyone involved.
Also, I think I should've been signaled that the doors were locked. Some people seemed to think that the escape was to figure out how to go through the doors rather that shoot MegaFloyd. Possibly didn't help that I had earlier introduced the concept of shooting a button through a door to lower a platform (which I intended to do more of, but never got to it)
Two And A Half More Things
There were some vis-related artifacts at the very beginning of Daz's map, and I spent a few moments lining them up and looking at them. They might be engine-dependent, so you will perhaps not see them.
I was confused by the key requirement message at the end of WarrenM's map, and thought I didn't pick up the Gold Key at all. I went back to look for it, and then thought for a while I had somehow lost it.
Slight criticism to some people. I ended up luring Fiends into lava here and there, but they did not die because you did not add a trigger_hurt to simulate monsters burning in lava. Shame on you :)
Yeah, I dunno ... I couldn't seem to set up 2 doors that require the gold key that were linked. You could open one side but the other would still bitch about the key. Blech.
Finally played all maps, what an amazing pack!!! Started recording yesterday, finished just yet..!
So many new mappers, i am both amazed and surprised by the number of finished entries here.
So basically all was said before, i can only repeat starting with:
: Nothing but a beautyfully strange place! The mechanic of breaking the seals wasn't clear, i managed to do it:)
Love the style throughout, map more!
: Knave? Oh yeah, this is good! Knowing your DOOM stuff, waiting for more Quake! Incredible for a 1st release! Go map!
: I wanted to join the Jam, glad i didn't. My map would have totally looked like yours.
Without all that glitchy stuff of course:) Loving the variety of all the loose bricks, rocks look ace!
One of my favorites! Oh, and neat startmap too! Now go map!
EricW & Tronyn
: OMFG! What an incredibly huge and evil place! I managed too beat this! Mhahaha. Still a bit high from playin, must have been the weed secret..
I liked the progression, the ceiling seems to never end, at every roof another vista opened up. I am deeply impressed how you fit this into the bounds. The skybox/lights worked well, the lava was too bright in places but i cannot really say anything bad. I had no performance issues btw. One of my favorites, and one of my favorite Tronyn maps of all times! This had me quite entertained, yeah! I don't know how much you did Eric, this goes out to you too. Awesome!
: My first maps looked like crap compared to yours, and i mean that. Solid brim style, had fun! Go map!
: You managed too improve the issues that i had while testing:) Well done, think about polishing the outer areas maybe and adding the "rest"?!? Go go map!
: Another 1st map that promises more. The scale made me feel desperate. Go map!
: What to say?!? Awesome geometry combined with base/techy bits, this so much tickles me in the right spots...
Gameplay wasn't on my side sadly, i found some places too dark. I died way too early.. Also performance issues. Anyway, I noclipped too every corner of it and had a wank, thats why no demo. Forgive me. Finish this please!
: Loving the geometry in this one as well, the fact there are no monsters on easy gave it that special vibe! Go map!
: �berfloyds and Chtons in a rubicon-style setting, you made no mistakes here. Its perfect, the pacing, the ambushs, the secrets, hell yeah! My favorite map of the pack, loved every single bit of it.
: Ambitious. I couldnt finish one room in time, you tried a whole city. This even works in a weird way.. Impressive for a debut appearance. Go map! Sadly no demo, i forgot to record.. Will u/l one later.
: This map, OMFG! This map! Technically another level, i really liked the draped skin uses as bridges. Did that thing just looked at me? Wtf? I found the gameplay itself to be not too enjoyable, had to cheat on easy. Way too much spawning in my face, literally. Anyway, so much novelty here, the lavaflow which gets cut for example! Very very impressive.. Go map!
: Polished, lovely to look at, what was it, shining through? I enjoyed it a lot! Another fav in style!:)
Im dizzy now, wow! Amazing pack, thank you all for hours of fun and slaughter!
Dalek robot monsters from Rubicon2
Sorry the final fight pwnd you :( I didn't have time to add difficulty settings to it.
matecha - Very short, bit too short actually. Great start, hope to see more.
rick - I missed something because I ran out of ammo at the second shambler. I found nails, but no nailgun, so I had to godmode it. Also missed some shells it seems.
necros - Awesome looking map, except for the pitch black indoor bits which were a bit annoying. Your obj2map experiment turned out really well, I have to say.
Yep, it's borderline breakage of the rule that secrets should not be required to finish a map. The nailgun is the one secret. You can get to the end without it on "hard", but making a run for it is often necessary due to the lack of shells.
To be honest, adding the "hard" skill setting was very nearly the last thing I did to the map and it was never actually tested. I just changed a few monster types, threw in some extra scrags and a bit more ammo and was done with it.
I have an improved version of the map in the works that should be much better.
i think my monitor is too bright. and i have brightness set to lowest too... god damn it.
@enliten And @MFX
@enliten - Well, the issue with the abyss is that it didn't get lit correctly at all on the final compile, which is sad, but I am glad people still enjoyed it. You are in luck. I am in the process of updating the map based on feedback and improving the areas I know are disappointing. I just need a whole lot of free time...
@MFX - Thanks. I set some hard limits on myself after trying somethings and failing at them. It is sad but setting those restrictions on myself meant less wasted time and more focus on what I knew I could do. After the release I have learned a ton about how I should have approached those situations so I can push my level further next time.
@necros - I opened your map source. Seems that you attenuated the blue lights too much. That blue color would make a nice "black light" sci fi base effect, adding to the Doom mood, if you let them reach further. Also, don't you like ericw's _surface and _surface_offset keys?
Your level is a modern day classic Doom, very well executed. Like a Doom fanfic graphic novel. Your rock test is a big success. I don't care about monsters, my only complain is about dark.
@DaZ - The purple haze fits perfect the rock texture you chose, making an amazing kid's fantasy setting. These colors set the level's identity upfront and I found them beautiful. It's like a Harry Potter game, moody and happy.
I read a complain about blockiness of this level, but I don't think so: there are good texture choices and enough variation, many different places in the level.
There's a giant rock dildo pending from the ceiling when the level begins. I don't wanna know what you meant with that. Just kidding, I was skeptic about the octogonal rocks, but turns out I was dead wrong.
A Splendid Job To All Those Involved
adib: Very fine use of colored lighting, the gentle blue of the sky sets a serene mood to the map. I actually did not pick up right away the fact I had to shoot the large stalagtites hanging from above, on the platforms below to proceed. I always enjoy jumping across ledges to avoid death by lava, the threat of danger never leaves even after all the monsters are dead.
breezeep: This map gave me the sensation that I was in a very sacred, ancient temple of knowledge, and my presence was not welcome. Needless to say I pressed onward. Very nicely constructed, along with some hard to spot secrets such as bricks sticking ever so slightly outward to reach a ledge.
Daz: Truly the definition of fire and brimstone. A large castle settled deep underground, drowning in dangerous lavafalls. Detailing in this map is excellent, especially the rocky columns, reminiscent of Giant's Causeway. Gameplay was also satisfying, challenging yet fair.
erictronyn: You should know by now any map with Tronyn's involvment is going to be epic in size and monsters, and this is no exception. The largest and longest map in the pack. Playing this map, I felt so insignificant because of the sheer size of it, the castle just stretches to the sky, and just when you think you've reached the top, you haven't. Exploration is mandatory in a map this size, if you don't search every nook and cranny you might miss key items that will help you survive. That is usually the case, but in this instance, I felt ammo and health were overstocked. Despite the maps threatening 400+ monster count, never once did I feel at risk because health, armor, and bullets were very abundunt throughout the entire map.
Exhelzar: Short, and kind of plain on details. But for a first map, its a very good start, and true to the theme of fire and brimstone. A very good effort.
Ionous: Molten lava bathes underneath this well structured acropolis. If you can imagine what the heat would feel like, it must be 50 celcius throughout this map. I got lost a few times during my inital run, but all it takes is a little exploration and backtracking to get back in the right direction. Take your time on this map, and see all there is to see, otherwise you'll miss out on some of the greatest looking ceilings you'll ever see.
Matecha: It may have the smallest amount of monsters, but don't let that get your guard down. A short map that kind of ends abruptly, and with a secret I can't imagine anyone being able to find unless its by accident. My favorite segment is the graveyard, as it has very precise detailing down to the pixel level. The gate door opened halfway, the cross on a tomb stone toppled over, the fence surrounding it, in my opinion the strongest part of the map entirely.
necros: This one kind of had my head scratching. For such a large map with terrific detailing, monster count was quite low. At first, it almost seemed like the threat of death was non-existant. I guess what I'm saying is I wish this map lasted longer because of how big it is, and how pleasant it was to look at.
Rick: A dark forboding castle that seems to echo death down the long empty halls, buried beneath centuries of earth, finally giving way to a volcanic eruption. Makes you wonder where the electricity is coming from. The purple fog was an interesting touch, not one I would have chosen but it did add color to the gray and brown palette.
Scampie: This map was my favorite in regards to gameplay. Very unique enviornment hazards like the huge cauldrons moving in what appears to be a huge boiler room, the security robot was a very unexpected but fun enemy, and of course the shootable Chthons rising from the lava as you make your way towards the exit. It may not follow the theme exactly as it is more base than brimstone, but its fast and challenging gameplay, along with great map details, this map fits the bill.
Shotro: Kind of a mixed bag here. On the one hand you have some well designed areas with good gameplay, and then there are some that seem outright out of place. For example, the initial hub room with the gold key door fits the theme perfectly, as well as the busted up bridge area where the silver key lies, both nicely built. Along with the dark walled tunnel section. Then you have this one outside place, lush grass and mossy rocks fill the path, and a waterfall descends into a pit of slime. Which then follows up to an abnormally bright, bloodied doom texture room. Neither of these fit the theme at all and are very bland in detail. The huge underground area also fell a bit short, as it just seemed too boxy in comparison with the rest of the level. It all ends in a village type setting. For a first map, if this is a first map, its a very impressive start, but the weird transition into vastly different themes so suddenly can really ruin the immersion.
tens: The most disturbing map in the pack, and I mean that in a good way. The unnatural rock formations, unsettling bridges make of skin, and of course the enormous head with the large, dead bulbous eyes that seem to follow you as you progress through the map. Which if you are paying attention, you realize that they do, and thats the most disturbing part. This is also the only map where I died, at the very end as a result of very little health and ammunition left, dealing with the shambler and vore.
warrenm: I always had in my mind that whenever I see large structures and architecture floating in the sky, that time has stopped, forgotten. A strange destination now uninhabitable as time has stopped for everything but the living. A well tuned map, small but with some hectic combat towards the end.
A fantastic job to everyone, pride yourselves with your creations.
primal, that was some creative playing in my map. In the demos that I've watched so far, no one else managed to jump over the trigger for the first wave of scrags, managed to start infighting between the first HK and vore, or managed to use the first wave of scrags against the vore.
You also got the fiends to jump into the lava pit and die, and because of that I think you could have finished with all kills but the 4 in the secret. But after 3 restarts it's completely understandable to just head for the exit :)
Oh, and at one point you looked right at the button to trigger the secret. Don't know if you missed it or just ignored it because you had no ammo to shoot it by then :)
@Scampie - I would pick your level as a winner here. It has it all: it looks great, it plays great, there are chtons, there are secrets. It's a long operation, you have to take time to beat it in all its complexity.
I know squat about Quake mods. Like I said in my readme, the moment I telefragged Ziggurath I quit caring about single player Quake. So, I don't know anything about Rubicon. To me, you level is like Half-Life, and one to be remembered.
Of course I couldn't finish it yet, because I have a problem. Seriously, I should get medical attention.
@ionous - Another winner. Your level is a vertigo. The player can look up and be amazed, but I found the gameplay very horizontal. If you make the player look up or cross the same areas at different levels, its grandness would be much more appreciated.
I don't have any complains. The fights were great, the environment always an eye candy. It's amazing that you found time to give so much attention to detail. You don't explore color too much, a matter of taste.
I see you used the provided rock_brown texture. It has a glitch I fixed. You can get it here at post #336:
@Warren - From your first screenshot I knew it would look beautiful.
Actually there's a funny story. I resented being back to these 64x64 desktop icons used as textures in 1996. I put a challenge to myself to use these wads only, though. At some point I was stuck, hating everything I did and no time to start over.
The reference that put me in the right direction was that screenie. They showed me these textures can make fine looks: oh, you can do like this, like that and suddenly I got the looks for that first "dm4" room in my level.
Comes out that yours is the prettiest of the pack. Looks like you're very comfortable with medieval settings, knows what to do very fast, right? Yet it's simple, not overdone, you made it look so easy to do.
Loved the height variations, the different places. The ending seems rough, but that's because you had to leave the boat sooner. These two tones you chose, the brown and the orange, are killer.
GAAHHHH! What a ride! I had to call my wife to watch your demos. Should have made a movie of her laughing till the face got red. That touchy moment when you managed to fall to the lava at a tiny corner where a scrag died was a blast. But you made it in the end! I'm making an independent movie out of this for Sundance Festival, if you don't mind.
A lot like me playing Scampie's.
Thanks for the video. When I finally put together my website I'll link it there.
The most rewarding moment of these demos is people trying to figure what a "seal" is and how to break it. The most shaming (for me) is poor bastar*cough* fellow players jumping to that tiny ledge at room 3. Since you seem to love it so much, I'm adding the ledge to gameplay (done right, off course).
Reviews Part Twos: Electric Boogaloos
I've uploaded another pair of videos! I hadn't planned to do only two a day, but the Ericw/Tronyn video took even longer than I'd anticipated. Hopefully I'll be able to work faster now that the hard stuff is out of the way. My thoughts:
Some seriously delicious architecture here. There's a satisfying "thickness" to your castle with all the recesses and trim, and the parallax? Forget about it.
Congratulations on the rockwork, I think the octagon approach paid off big time. I wouldn't have expected such simple shapes to turn out looking like anything, but slide enough of them up against each other and apparently you have a nice cavern.
Gameplay was great, of course! To be honest, when I heard you mention that you were working on repopulating the map when the player wasn't around, I thought it would feel weird. I was worried it wouldn't feel substantially better than just teleporting enemies in plain sight, but I was wrong. The monster placement felt natural the whole time, I never picked up the new ones as anything out of the ordinary. Even the knights-in-lava fit right in.
I did get a bit confused by the reversed key progression, but not for long, and after all I only used gold in my own map, so I'm not one to talk. Sorry to hear about your technical difficulties, if you decide to come back to this and work on it further I'd love to play an update!
Ericw & Tronyn
For the love of all that is holy, you two are diseased. In the best possible way, mind you, but diseased nonetheless.
That red armors and megahealths are just run of the mill supplies here tells you everything you need to know about this map. I'm a sucker for Painkiller scale environments, and I'm still baffled that these days we can have them in Quake (and that there are mappers willing and able to build such places). We live in a wondrous time.
Had some framerate difficulties, and got lost once or twice, but the map was still a blast to rip through! I saw mention on Quaddicted that there are plans for an updated version, looking forward to it; I was surprised an unvised map ran as well as this one did even when I was recording video, but improved performance will certainly be welcome.
A bunch of demos since I last posted, thanks everybody!
ShoTro: I only rush to keep things lively. Hanging back behind cover, sniping enemies with the shotgun, I just think it's a lot more fun (for me and for anyone watching) to get in there and mix it up. I try not to outright race through interesting stuff, but it's easy to get carried away. Your map was really fun even if it wasn't meant to be played like that!
Shambler: Yes, the inconsistent styles are the result of not making design decisions fast enough. I couldn't decide how to evoke the reference image I was using with the textures, floorspace, and skillset available to me. I wanted the whole place to feel like it was alive, made of some sort of fleshy substances, or at least have some small touches like gates made of teeth, but any of that would have been much more work than I had time for and was capable of. The last minute compromise was to just make a standard issue rock cavern, planning to have the organic stuff seem to be growing around everything. It ended up just being a big lump of weird stuff thrown together. If I may ask, what's OTT? I assume it's a map/mod/game I'm not familiar with.
Scampie: Love the demo, and you really inflated my already fat head toward the end there. :) You seem like exactly the type of player I had in mind when I built this map. I just wish I'd known how to accommodate everybody else, too.
enliten: Thanks! I was hoping more for an ambiguous expression that flit between anger and fear depending on how it struck players' imaginations, but having it turn out to look silly is satisfying in its own right. Goes to show the difficulty of capturing emotions with 3D art, especially low poly stuff like this. Big, glaring bug eyes could read as angry, fearful, or just goofy, and I'm not sure how you'd go after only one of those. I agree about the map missing something, I started out with just a hub and spoke design that really just had you going point to point, then added the bridge back by the high lift to offer another route and played with where to introduce the key to try encouraging a bit of mildly interesting backtracking. The original hub and spoke, "go here then go there because I said so that's why" style of progression shows blatantly through, though. I don't know that I could add anything to fix it, it's a fundamental design flaw.
mfx: Sorry about the spawning. I got so far in with my giant open space layout that I ended up with only a few natural places to stick patrolling and stationed monsters. Teleporting enemies seemed like my only option, but with the eerie totem things I thought it wouldn't be so bad. Obviously it didn't work out that way. The pump station fight is awfully cramped, for example, and it's easy to have somebody spawn right next to the player. The zombie you had trouble with in the graveyard is on a timer, though, and the fact that he showed up right where he did at that moment was an unfortunate accident. I didn't take explicit steps to shove them in your face, in my defense.
Orl: Thank you for the kind words, on general principle I always try to be as disturbing as I can.
adib: Glad you and yours had fun with my playthrough! Knowing a woman went red in the face laughing at me for being an idiot, well, that's the story of my life.
Yeah, I remember thinking that it sure would have been nice to shoot and test some things for secrets at one point after running out of ammo. I forgot all about it on later runs, since I was focused on getting the monsters to infight and then getting to the part of the map I hadn't seen yet.
The map ended a bit sooner than I thought, since I expected one more shambler or vore and maybe a nailgun just lying around. But, you know, I did't mind my expectations being wrong about how this map was put together. It was a good challenge :)
What a turnout! Interesting how everyone added their own touch to the theme. Nice to see so many new people. Despite beginner style levels, they show good potential. Hope to see more from them in the future.
Several of the maps have items falling out or monsters spawning partially inside walls as well as other avoidable issues. For the new mappers: enable developer 1
in the console before loading the map, then you'll see the corresponding warning messages; for the old mappers: suckers!
The included demo is recorded on protocol 666 - this is bad practice. Despite the fact that some of the maps require a protocol like this, it should maintain compatibility.
Some rather clumsy first runs on skill 2: http://quaketastic.com/files/demos/mapjam6_negke.zip
Compact and well-interconnected, kind of like a speedmap. Not very obvious that one has to shoot the rock spikes. Seems tight on ammo, as if using the rocks to crush certain enemies was required. Good start!
Not much in the way of fire and brimstone, I guess, but still seems to fit in with the pack. Solid map, but hard secrets. Dunno about Knave.... Maybe try to mix some stuff up like your Doom levels.
Octagonal rocks hype... :P It looks good with the lava light and the fog, but still a bit odd/ott. Layout works well, with bit of futile exploration even, fun gameplay. It somewhat shows you ran out of time in the upper parts; would have liked the castle to be beefed out a little, protruding stuff at the top etc. A couple of clipping and portal errors, though no wonder with so much "terrain". I think this is my favorite map from the pack; similar to what I had in mind for the jam... except mine would have had better gameplay
Unvised, didn't play.
Again, sort of a speedmappish-style level. Quite boxy and with a bit of 'wasted space', but no worries for a first map! A possible next design step, apart from refining the architecture and adding details, could be interconnecting the whole level to make it feel like a functional fortress, windows/balconies/walkways at higher levels to make more use of the space. For next time.
Feels a bit like a brighter version of your Jam3Dlc map - tall corridors, central atrium and such. Good, just a shame you didn't manage to get the final area done in time
amatecha: Promising first effort, although it's over so quickly, I didn't even realize I stepped into the exit already. Looks a bit like a test map with three different areas joined together. Need to add some visblockers between the larger areas next time, because doors don't block visibility.
Cool experiment. I kind of expected super-realistic rockwork since it was modelled in a 3D app. The chunkiness isn't bad, though. Along with the very nice industrial buildings, the whole scene reminds me of the Borderlands games. Doom textures work well here. I enjoyed the laid-back gameplay, but of course it still feels like something is missing. The interiors are way too dark, however!
Nice little ruins thing. The purple fog bothers me a little, I think a more red and less blue would have fit better. I didn't find the nailgun and subsequently ran out of ammo, so I had to run past the shambler and suddenly there was the exit. Oh well.
Good-looking and polished level. Not what I expected give the jam theme, but works. negke seal of approval for the hacks, Megafloyd rocks. Good secrets too, except the Quad one is a bit obscure maybe (and a bit useless overall). Still, not scampsp2, therefore 0/10.
Ah, it looks like an oldschool beginner map, albeit better in style. A mishmash of areas and ideas, and some serious techical issues. Reminded me of old Doom maps at times. Some of the areas look quite promising; try to maintain a consistent style/theme throughout the whole map next time, and get tech support before release.
Cool little map with a hilarious touch. Something one doesn't see often in Quake levels; that face.... I love how the eyes move as you progress through the map. The organic style of the building and bridges is cool. Shame the map exceeds the clipnodes limit; it feels like this could have been avoided with some clever clipping. Are you from the Mapcore crowd?
Looks good, too bad it's unfinished. It has a classic feel to it, pretty much like the old speedmap packs that had small deathmatch levels. This map also has a similar vibe as my SM131, although combat is less tense. Pretty much a pretty battle arena... with lava-barfing rocks.
All very brief comments... that's the downside of such a big pack.
Oh My God
OTT == "Over the top", I'm a dimwit.
Thanks, negke, and sorry about the limit breaking. I'd always prefer not to if it's unnecessary, but in this case I only realized toward the end of the project that I hadn't been running with developer turned on. If I had seen the warning I definitely would have found out what the hell clipnodes are and tried to do something about it, though since Quakespasm was our recommended target engine I may not have tried too hard. I'll be sure to watch out for this with future maps!
I'm not Mapcore, no. The only community I spend any time in is RunThinkShootLive/PlanetPhillip, my only releases thus far have been HL2 stuff. That site led me to Daz and his Youtube channel, where I in turn learned about these jams (and the fact that there was still a singleplayer Quake mapping community).
lol! What a demo :D
that deserves its own release as jam6_daz_proper=)
/me votes for spawn_remix_jam
...a huge thank you to all who took part in this jam. I got lost in the fire and brimstone for some time over the weekend.
Reviews Part 3
Congratulations on your first map release! Just getting something out the door is an accomplishment.
I did think there could be a bit more in the way of space to dodge attacks, and some cover for enemies to use. If you were to dogleg some of those narrow hallways, maybe have them fork, and/or widen them a little, I think there'd be more opportunities for entertaining combat.
You did note the map is in the alpha stages, of course, so I don't want to be too critical. I thought you did a good job with the lighting, nice color and very moody.
Hooray for trapezoids! I wasn't kidding when I said I love them, I think the look suits Quake very well. They're ziggurat cross sections, after all.
Your white and yellow color scheme is great, as beautiful as so many of the other maps are it's still a nice change of pace, and still manages to fit the lava texture you used. I also get the willies thinking of this giant mausoleum with bones, or at least skulls, packed behind all the walls.
There were a couple of spots where I got hung up on some of your floor geometry, I take it that was just a deadline issue? I see in your source map that you clipped most of the stuff off.
Hey start map roomie!
This was a little short, but I liked what I saw, and was getting into it when it ended. Maybe some gameplay in the graveyard would punch the place up a little? I'm hardly in a position to be judging anyone for having too few enemies, I know, I just think a minute or two of extra gameplay would round the map out.
Oh, by the way, I'd definitely get some use out of that calculator you mentioned in the dev thread, if you have a chance to share it I'd love to take a look!
Sorry to say I'm another wayward soul who skipped over the nailgun, but I managed to tough it out and finish the map.
I'm in love with that royal purple fog, you turned out a wonderfully memorable visual with this map. It was pretty enjoyable to play, too, but I do agree with the others that dragging the nailgun out into the open would be a big boost.
Gratz To All
Played over the last few days so not really proper reviews. Liked scampie's, itendswithtens', probably some others I've forgotten :-) necros' is an amazing tech demo :)
A Recap On My Earlier Post:
all secrets apart from one.
i've been over the level a couple of times after wiping everyone out, and can't find it.
Ionous Missing Secret
I think that there's a missing secret in ionous map : four zombies standing in a small hidden room behind a skulls wall. There's no mechanism to open that wall (or I never found it), and had to use noclip to find this room.
Maybe is it unfinished ?
Scampie: Outstanding map, liked it a lot. I guess this was the most "conventional" of the pack, but it looked and played perfectly fine for me. Chtons were a nice touch.
ShoTro: If I had to guess I'd say you are a doom mapper? It was a bit 2D and the lighting was overdone, but the gameplay was nice. Had some interesting and challenging moments in that map.
Warren: Upper part of the ruins was supreme. Great flow, felt like I played it backwards somehow, as if I had found some secret passage. Very cool. The fight after the first gold key was outstanding. Lower part was kinda meh, but I guess time constraints.
ah, so i DID find 'em all :)
i'm gonna check my last save and use noclip to have a look.
Reviews Part Four
"Why can't you be more like Floyd Braun?" The security system's mother shouted at him again. He'd show her. He'd show them all.
You've built a wonderful Industrial Pipey Place, I had fun here. The map starts in a minecart? 10/10. It ends with a fakeout exit shambler? 11/10 I also liked what secrets I found, although I know a certain someone who's going to be disappointed at the lack of goodies under your lifts.
Your different themes didn't fit together too well, perhaps, but this was a fun Quantum Leap/Sliders type situation, jumping from place to place or time to time.
I'm not a big fan of mazes, but I can't help adoring your flesh bridges for obvious reasons. The grand scale of that lava room felt nice, too, though I can imagine polish would be much easier with less space to fill.
Any plans to revisit your brush monster? I like that kind of thing, maybe with more time to work on the idea you could get it working.
I toyed with Warren's OBJ2MAP in the early stages of the competition, but despite a growing familiarity with Blender I never managed to produce anything like this. It's inspiring, I really want to experiment more now!
This map was a little bit dark in the interiors, and the exterior's collision was a wee bit wonky here and there, but the atmosphere was engrossing, it reminded me of a techy version of the Sunspire from Unreal.
Like my grandfather always said, "you can't go wrong with lava puke."
Strong theme here, the wooden reinforcement of stone structures feels incredible. A crumbling outpost, sinking into the lava as the centuries pass, one last defense by a desperate horde against players' intrusions. On top of all that, your fog and lighting color are immaculate.
And that final room, with the knights and vores? You know just how to appeal to players like me, thanks for the good time!
And that'll do it, thanks to all the mappers for their wonderful work! I had a great time with this whole endeavor, here's hoping I have the chance to enter more jams in the future.
In the same area as the Megahealth secret there's a shootable button nestled amidst the gold texture. Next to the rope.
i remember following that ledge once, but then i think i stopped for some reason and dropped down before going too far.
unlike some of the others, it was kind of obvious, if only i hadn't dropped down too soon i would have spotted that obvious flashing red square!
i think i remember saying to myself that there wouldn't be another secret so close to the megahealth secret...how wrong o was!
i like the fact that you number them, that way i roughly new that it was after the megahealth but before the quad damage (it helps narrow the search down).
no quake level is complete without finding all the secrets (that must be that anal retentive nature i'm guilty of)!
cheers again for a great map ;)
That video was awesome, thank you!
So it's been long enough, I guess I can talk about this ... it seems like hardly anyone saw the quad at the start, which leads to the zombie island, which is where your missing creatures are.
Also, nobody I saw took advantage of any of the speed running short cuts or slant-jumps I set up in various places.
Oh well. :)
In retrospect, attacking with knights at the bottom of the stairs probably distracted too much.
Heh, one thing I discovered watching people play my map is that over 50% of the time it's not at all what I expected.
Scampies Map On Nightmare...my Shit Got Pushed In!!!
i died more than christ :0
3 out of 6 secrets.
i had to shoot the shotgun to light up a corner, where i noticed a thunderbolt secret.
i found the pentagram secret
of course, maybe turning up the brightness would help on the next run through looking for the other secrets.
the first 3rd of the map is restrained enough, but it seems to really kick into gear after that.
I want to ask a mapping question. Why did you make the lava falls at the ends of the bucket ride solid?
On replaying the map I wanted to see how they'd kill me, and the answer is apparently they will push me off the bucket and I will fall into the lava below. It wasn't what I expected. Perhaps there is a reason why making them func_illusionary wouldn't work?
@Warren In my second demo I use a slope jump :)
Blah Blah Blah Blah Post
I was hiding that the buckets are just traveling in a rectangular loop, so I needed them to go behind something, and a big curtain of lava for them to get filled by seemed the best solution. I also intended it would be somewhat harrowing that you have to jump off to the nearby ledge at the last moment to avoid death. I regard lava as signalling 'this will kill you' in my map, and don't expect the player to go into it except in one very rare place where I give you a tool to survive death...
A few people tried to go into the lava fall, I should have recognized that would be something people would want to do and better support that (even if it still killed you), just like those catwalks above Mega Floyd and the ones the Enforcers walk on and shoot at you from. Originally those were just meant to look neat, and you were just going to go up a lift to the blue key without going up to them at all... but the view looked so cool I quickly added a windtunnel just so I could make enforcers shoot at you while you walked on one of the catwalks!
And speaking of odd choices, Sock brought this up, and ItEndsWithTens got confused at this point: To progress in the level, you need to go into the maintenance hatch below the gold key door. This is a source of confusion because you're being clearly shown a walkway that goes toward the gold key door, but there's no clear path to the ledge you drop down onto. Originally, I was going to make that gold key door simply a 'locked' door, and have it hint that you should find a way around, which would have helped quite a bit... but then the layout started going in a different direction.
So I did what I could to point players at that little hatch... the light blinks, there's a sound, there's ammo on the ledge, an enforcer shoots at you from that door earlier in the map, and the shortcut button has a view of the door and ledge when you push it. I hope these things helped direct the player in this admittedly confusing part, but I think it was more the sense of exploration by players that made then jump down and actually go the right way.
TLDR of all this is: I just made cool looking things and quickly connected them together as I went, and there's a lot of things I might have done better had I planned them out ahead of time.
Okay, fair enough.
I didn't have much trouble figuring out the maintenance hatch part, but I did almost ride into the lava. It wasn't till the last second when I realized "Uh oh, I need to get off this thing real quick"
It wasn't till the last second when I realized "Uh oh, I need to get off this thing real quick"
This is exactly what I was going for :D
I Died There :-(
but I was also curious as to exactly how I would die once I realized I'd screwed up :-)
where's the last secret?
i've searched the map after killing everything, but i'm missing one.
pentagram of protection
That Pent has a special use...
...i'll give that another shot then!
I got a new version of my map in the works. Expanded (silver key area) and cleaned up a bit ( also removed some areas that hindered the game play). Going to release it sometime this weekend. This version won't have the future gold key area yet.
that was tough!
there was a good mixture of enemies for the majority of the battles, which made them very tough at times.
i spazzed about alot having issues maneuvering underwater, shooting scrags while watching my air.
like others have said, tough secrets.
i really enjoyed playing that section where you are in a room with four ogres with grenades bouncing off every wall...very nasty, but fun!
i found the thunderbolt.
i found the megahealth (well, i found the steps in the wall, but i needed to see someones demo to relise to shoot the button and reach the top step)).
i needed help finding the yellow armor.
i spent a while going around the cleaned out map looking for the 4th and final secret, but couldn't find it :(
It worked really well. On my 2nd playthrough, I noticed the flashing light above the little door, and thought "That's a really neat and natural way to highlight where the player needs to go". Same with the cable from the button-less lift.
Played Some Of These Yesterday :)
I ventured through WarrenM's, Necros, Scampie's and Daz's levels. All very creative and enjoyable. Simply love what you guys do with Quake. It's awesome :)
My stream wasn't setup up correctly for QS(my own fault) so I deleted the archive. And I'm not a demo recording person, sowwee.
Anyways, just wanted to stop by and say a BIG "Thank You" to all those who participated, Thank you ;)
5 Played So Far
adib - lovely atmosphere, wish this was longer. The lighting was exquisite, some of the vore placement was devious but the end arena seemed a bit rushed.
matecha - also had lovely atmosphere, again wish this was longer because gameplay was pretty much non-existent.
breezeep - solid if unspectacular map. Gameplay was on the tough side but manageable.
shotro - definitely a map that feels like uncohesive as a whole and more like different ideas stuck together but some of the gameplay ideas as well as some of the individual visual ideas are very neat. Definitely worthwhile on the whole just for the intrigue factor as to what comes next.
exelzhar - this seemed a bit more speedmappish, some very basic designs and gameplay was also not that interesting.
ItEndsWithTens - love it, my favorite so far. Very very creative and original.
Rick - lovely atmosphere in this one as well, again wish it was longer.
Warren - very polished, great atmosphere, some of the monsters get stuck on the geometry a bit too much but otherwise very enjoyable map, although again wish it was longer.
Post Release Update.
I have been gone a week, I was across the pond in the US on business, but it gave me time to create a todo list and redesign of my map, but also a plan. In the next 48 hours I will work on what will be the final version of "From Ashes" on this forum, if you want to replay the map as-is with better balance, a few surprises, and a few fixes, this might be worth it for you. Later, months down the road, I will release "Forged From Ashes" a map built on the ideas and feedback received. Without a time limit you can expect the quality to be much higher with a few bits of modified code thrown in to boot.
Well, That Plan Got Blown To Hell...
Jackhammer screwed up the entities on the map, so I have to relink everything... I am back to being busy at work, so, if I get something in the future done, I will release it, but right now the MapJam is being pushed to the back of my mind now.
Signati - Final
Here is a new and final version of my level Signati:
It has better:
- Polishment: some things were bugging me aesthetically, some geometry was too messy, some were just not finalized;
- Gameplay: many changes based on your feedback, some improvements, a new battle after the last seal breaks, polished ending.
- Deathmatch ready! A full blown DM setup, including geometry for better bot navigation, only visible in DM mode. Not the best DM ever, but it's playable. I'm not fiddling with it any longer, Jackhammer and MAP sources available for anyone up to.
I made it just to empty the buffer, finish it and have a closed version. Don't think it screws jam's purpose. It's the same level, with its pros and cons. If you're serious about DLC, it can include this version along with new stuff.
Played A Few :)
Adib - haha - inspirational map, but dang annoying gotchas more experienced mappers wouldnt make.
Necros - yah, real moody(dark) little seque of a map with typical aaa style. Love seeing doom mixed up ... but those doom door sounds become a bit much when they keep going off.
My demo ends abruptly because my pc overheated
Eric+Tronyn - typical T. stuff. I found 7 secrets or so, including the weed. But a repeating issue with T's maps is , that the quad secrets are always found *after* f-ing busting your guts 10 times, when there's no-one left to nuke, laugh. Great atmosphere all these three. I loved the intro, which was just as well as had to play it ~int(pi^2) times :).
Scampie's intro is sweet... still lots of playing to do.
Played Tens map is old school crazy. Love the totem.
Warrens looks good - another day.
I have nothing to add that everyone hasn't already said (scampie's was best, the eyes in Tens' map were lol fucked up, great efforts by the guys just trying out quake mapping, daz plz learn 2 compile, etc) but this pack was real neato. GJ etc.
So how do you get into the "sharp eyes" secret?
I'mnot Breezep, But I'll Try @mwh
If I remember right, it's the one that is opened by means of something very hard to see. Turning on fullbright lighting might help you find it.
Daz's map is freaking awesome, and worth a bugfix release (if it hasnt been done already).
While that lavafall texture worked well in jam2_lunaran, I found it looks out of place in most of these maps. Guess it's not to be used on larger surfaces, only or mostly in combination with the standard lava texture, and not in a way that one can see the transition.
It didn't even work that well in jam2_lunaran. Had to do a lot of wacky things with func_walls to stop it from drawing in front of lava it was supposed to be behind (like around the lg secret), and it still doesn't transition well. Nothing transitions well with quake liquids.
Looks better than the Heretic waterfall texture though.
I thought the lava fall texture worked pretty well in some limited situations.
I couldn't get the texture alignment on sides to look right transitioning from horizontal to vertical, so I hid that as best as I could. I avoided any transitions between lava fall and the regular lava texture completely, other than where it poured in from above.
With both my lava falls I tried to give the impression it was coming out of a crack or tunnel. That part could have used more detailing but I ran out of time.
A re-colored version for regular waterfalls obviously has to be done.
It doesn't look much like lava at all. Too fluid or something. Okay for small/thin streams, but goofy on bigger ones. "Nice curtains" as someone said.
One of necros' maps has a fairly good animated lava texture IIRC, based on the id lava.
this was my main reference
because yeah, lavafalls should be gloopy
but lots of blobs and features looked really bad with the low framerate on +0 animated textures so I went with super thin liquid hot-ass lava.
everything liquid in quake looks awful anyway, it's all fine.
It's also noteworthy that lava has the consistency of bad incontinence:
It probably hurts just as bad, too.
You'll have to pay close attention to the walls and bookshelves in the map. Look out for any geometry that stick out from a wall.
Played 2 More
necros - clearly a tech demo but like any proper tech demo, the visuals are amazing. Or at least the outside bits which is obviously where the time went.
ionous - great map. Visuals were strong, loved the intricate brushwork and detailing, lighting could have been more moody but guessing time constraints (ditto some of the last area which seems a little unfinished). Gameplay was quite well thought and very entertaining.
All kills demo on jam6_warrenm with several slope jumps
and a couple of rocket jumps:
YES! Somebody used the slope jumps and various shortcuts.
Vindication is mine!!! :P
Cool demo, man ...
Took Me A While But....
... finally I played the pack.
So basically what others said. I loved the theme, and all the mappers made great maps.
Congrats to all :D
Jam6_Daz & Jam6_start
I couldn't get 100% kills in Magmapolis. Noclipped to find a vore which didn't teleport in (QS 0.90.1 win-32 and QS 0.90.0 win-64).
In the start map, sometimes the centerprint doesn't appear after you select nightmare skill. Which is a pity because it's hilarious. Demo:
@Scampie Re: Maintenance Hatch
I think that having the rail on the left of the goldkey bridge be broken would help suggest a drop from the bridge itself. having 3m or so of railing torn off and spiralling down towards the ledge creates a point of visual interest that would lead players to look down from the bridge to the ledge below sorta like this: http://i.imgur.com/rSHYP7f.jpg
That said, I really loved your map. Great aesthetics and it flows really well, good reuse of the central area.
I keep on believing that some level of confusion is part of the experience. Game designers shouldn't spoil the player bending to every complain. It's for their own good.
Confusion for the sake of it isn't good, that's simply weak design which is more likely to frustrate players than interest them.
I did intend that the player would get to the gold key door and go 'oh... now where do I go?', but didn't do enough to help them answer that question. Examining the environment and seeing a broken railing totally would've helped. It wouldn't weaken the map, it enhances it by letting you be drawn further into it's world and heightening the sense of exploration. So, I really like the suggestion Danrul, I should've thought to do that, especially since I had broken railings in the foundry area that were also signaling 'hey, you can jump off here'!
Ok, let me fix the argument:
'oh... now where do I go?'
I stand for this feeling as an important part of the experience. Two possible outcomes of a well designed solution: "I'm smart because I solved it"; "gee, it was on my face the whole time!". Like good mistery movies do.
careful with that line of thought - it's inherently self-defensive. it's easy to create a map that makes no sense and then congratulate yourself for it because you "created mystery."
I like exploration a lot, particularly in maps where there is more than one possible route, but nothing is more frustrating as a player than getting lost. For Something Wicked I really erred on the side of caution - I felt like I was designing a console level putting glowing arrow signs, lol, but I thought it better to err on that side than have people wandering around a foggy cavern hating me.
I�d say one goal of good level design is to give the feeling of exploration while pulling the player on an invisible thread. You use architecture and player psychology to make them act in a certain way, which doesn�t always work out, but is important to try nonetheless.
I think for a map like wicked, you made the right call.
I stand for this feeling as an important part of the experience. Two possible outcomes of a well designed solution: "I'm smart because I solved it"; "gee, it was on my face the whole time!". Like good mistery movies do.
In order for you to get that "right in front of your nose" feeling, there needs to be some clue that you could have followed, and that's exactly what Danrul's suggestion adds. If he suggested an arrow on screen, constantly pointing to the next waypoint, I'd agree with you. But the clue he's suggesting isn't just something to simplify the search - it creates that connection from problem to solution.
The Mystery Of Confusion
Play any negke map and see how much mystery movie you can take in a level...
But seriously, MCE by negke is probably a very good case study for this stuff. Confused the fuck out of me for a while!
Lower Forecourt is a good case study for this kind of stuff!
Negkolas Winding Refn
Acclaimed author of:
The mappi Trilogy
Valhalla Rising and Descending
Only Tronyn Harrows
@re: Player Direction
@Adib - I thought that Signati could have benefited from some broke staircase/bridge bits to suggest the natural order of progression between platforms. It was already pretty to navigate but I think that would be a polish change that would help justify the concept.
Do you guys think it's relevant that the drop to the ledge below is the first time the player has to disregard the architecture of the level? All progression until that point is following the flow of the level, and then when it gets to the drop there's no obvious path forward. Another way to phrase it is that there's no 'diegetic' path to the ledge, but all progression until that point is 'diegetic'.
With that in mind, do you think that something like a sparking (obviously broken) lift down to the ledge or a ladder (even those aren't really in quake) could also help insinuate that the path to progression is below.
btw, I don't think the drop as it is that problematic, but its an interesting point of discussion.
Drive (Me Crazy With All This Mystery)
It's possible. My level was roughly finished and poorly tested. Its value is some ideas shown there. Thanks for playing :D
Jam6_necros In 1:00
Normal route is more fun though, since you won't miss all the action.