...to explore.Yeah. 

this edition yet, but the beta was fun. 

I really enjoyed playing this map. Some areas are a bit bland, but the size of the map makes up for it. It took me a half hour to beat it, which is pretty long. Difficulty was just right, not to hard, but not to easy. Well done. 

This map has so much potential!
The layout is cool once you get the hang of it, the progression is really interesting, some of the setpieces are good. In genral this map is a really good idea.

Sadly, the build quality is non-existant, the lighting is an affront to God, the texturing seems to have been done in notepad and there are some weird choices regarding theme.

100% serious: If I had the time I would do a remake of this map.

Oh, and what kind of naming convention is naming the .zip 'grunt' while naming the .bsp 'grenade'? And also putting folders in the .zip file when it's not needed? :( 

Please please please learn to use gold/silver key doors properly, Madfox. Making the doors open when you pick up the key is not correct and makes things confusing.
Add the key "spawnflags" "8" to make a gold key door and "spawnflags" "16" to make a silver key door. 

to anyone who wants to play it, i strongly recommend deleting the .lit file, because the colored lighting looks really really shit. i had to blink my eyes every few seconds to make sure they were still ok. without the .lit, it was much more endurable.

then what czg said; plus i got lost after the pushing the goldenrunelight button which lets one fall into the water in the waterfall canyon. noclip. :/ 

there's a hole in the wall on one side that you can swim up and press a button and then there's another hole that opens up to the waterfall and then there's a door that opens up that leads to a hallway and then I dunno what happens 

NO! Dont delete .lit - that would make map less madfoxy 

I must admit the colors were overdewed, as said in the read me.
I already made them half as they were, but it is still too severe,
must be my cartoon roots.

czg, the first name I had was -grunt grenade-,
but then I discovered a map on the net that already had that name. Making keys is indeed not my strongest side, and texturing was a tough job.

neg!lke, there is indeed a point, when one swims further without taking the side way, the level can have a deadend. I will make an arrow for markpoint.

#7 -that leads to a hallway and then I dunno what happens-
Then the halldoor in front of you has opened, so now you can make your way to the second train, end level.

This level has made me a hom-blaster!
I had this strange apearance with maps in the past.
Then it were a few two or three. Nevermind.
Virtus DeathMatchMaker isn't so bad anyway! 

you use deathmatchmaker?! I remember buying that... 

that the big marine base and the round chamber were made with it. Maybe this explains the srage texture editing. It always goes 2" out of grid.

Later I placed the maps together with Quark61.
And without the new tyrlight of Aguire the map
refused in a maximal planes. Thanks for that!

There were two parts I sunk into the level, and I couldn't find anything in the map.
So I clipped them with succes. 

I used to use Deathmatch Maker too. I've also got DMM2 and HexMaker hanging around somewhere. A fool and his money, eh.

MadFox, did you not release this map a while ago? Or was that in beta?

Either way, I strongly recommend leaving DMM behind for good now that you've picked up something else. It's very restrictive, and tends to cause some very irritating errors in my experience. 

I'd rather be making maps in Windows Notepad than Deathmatch Maker - at least in Notepad you actually have the option of placing brushes on a binary grid.

It's also worth pointing out that Notepad's "texture browser" is at least as good as Deathmatch Maker's if I recall correctly... 

The map was earlier released on beta and screenshots. I needed some support to know if my mappings were modulated enough for an average player.

I really tend to Quark61. It has barsliders and a good viewer, and texture scaling. And for correcting things I always go back to Quark407. Silly I never got RQradiant working in a decent way.But I'm still running under Win98, because for Quake I don't want to loose my Dos functions.

Kinn, in the readme I wrote something about the brush placement.
It was related to an article I read on this board about placing polyhedron ends exact on grid line, but I forgot if it was you or Kell.

CZG, if you would make a remake of this map, what would you change?
I am really curious about it. As with support it can make me see what I is meself becoming blind of all that mapping. Had a testlevel -4 of 18 houres. 

Everything but the layout really. 

Had already a big box around it for stopping it leak, not a good sign.
Also the lighttextures had a high count. 

...go on CZG, you know you want to! 

http://underworld.planetquake.gamespy.com/quakerev060727.html 

and after some twenty minutes I couldn't get forward and then noclipped and then played some ten minutes and then again stuck and then frustrated and quit. Is it really finishable in skill 1 and without noclip? 

oh wel i shouldn�t be making any coment becouse u are a fucking asshole(many reasons...) !!! but if i don�t coment i become one like u... so i will drop my comment on your map...

i think u had very good idears, the layout was great with nice combats,doors were a lot confused... for exemple near the dragon when shambler spwan, i run almost all level trying to understand what happend... this suck real hard... took lot of time to find way! in the water part same crap... :\ drop some msg... once in a wile... or people get bored and start using noclip!!!

thks all was a nice level to play good work!

Trinca 

my last post was hurried. The level's strengths are interesting rooms, environments, landscapes, interconnectivity and some cool lifts and windows. The waterfall was nice too. It's just that it needed to be smaller and have more coherence and player-friendliness. And more polish.
Madfox, try playing some other maps and you see how they are done. You can open the terra pack .map files in the editor to see how they are done, for example. The player always knows where to go next and there are enemies populating the levels.

The computer terminals and the weird beam thingy were kinda cool too. There was some bug in the floor with one computer room with enforcers near the opening windows, i dropped out of the level when I noclipped there and walked around. The room with the teleport destination. 

is it a monster, is it a monster!

Thanx UnderworldFan, for your revieuw!

Trueley I must confess this map needed more betatesting, but I had to shout more harder on sreenshots and betas. Now there were only four,
and it helps a lot when people give their feedback. For now I got a few good hints.

Sorry Bambuz, my mappings always tend to a morer intuitive path than a logic player would follow. Player friendly is the good word.
I also found two parts where this dropout level appeared. I'll cheque it out.

Trinca, I often wondered why you dislike me, but that many reasons will be a matter of people and taste. Still a beer and good skill myside!
Indeed I should give the Shambler a message for the sidedoor opening. As the underwater path could have signs. Thanks for the hint.

I'll remap the errors, and make a new bsp.
I have made a booth on Q10thExpo and have the level Orb'sBetrayal with newskill setting and lightning, but there may be to much ammu. 

i dont dislike u madfox but

1� once i send u a privet msg at quakeone.com and u never reply me... this is not nice!

2� u never coment other people maps people dont care about download but coments are always good bad or good

cheers man :p 

for the last is my own fault, but the reason is I am always mapping. Other people's map do interest me, but I'm cheap in time.

the first you must forgive me, because I archive all my email with people sharing Quake maps with me. If you sended me an email at quakeone.com and I didn't answer must be that I'm unused to things like private messages on boards. But it wasn't may intention, my computer crashes rather a lot on the net. 

Don't sweat it ;)

This map was a giant step up from your previous works although it would have definitely benefited from more beta-testing. The colored lights weren't bad and they helped give the map a feel of its own. The size of the whole thing was awesome and the inter-connectivity was decent - much better than your previous maps. Your brushwork has also improved. Unfortunately, like many others, I was too lost after the first key and quit :(

Ultimately, though, the fact that CZG likes your map enough to offer a redux is an accomplishment on its own :) He should definitely do it! (It's funny, I thought the same thing about Quatrotski) Keep up the good work!