Sorry about that, it's a qbsp bug (in my tools, at least) - maps where all brushes are func_group/detail cause qbsp to blow up.

Just move one brush from func_group to worldspawn and it should be fine. 

I added now one template brush to default layer, and it compiled fine. Thank you~ 

khreathor
Thanks for the feedback.
I havent set any difficulty, there should be about 60+ enemies at the moment and 3 shambler. i Should probably add the SSG on top of the blue key door so to allow more action.

The castle area has alot less health because its should feel alot more dangerous than the start, and give the player a feeling that if you could only re-enter the start to get health. Im not sure if this just ends up feeling annoying for the player.

In the lighting gun area I now noticed the leak also, you can see the sky box XD and also the damagebrush at the red armour.


Shamblernaut
QUAKE ERROR: Mod_LoadBrushModel: maps/soofa.bsp has wrong version number (1143028768 should be 29)

What does this mean? how do i fix this? 

what bsp version are you compiling for? is trenchbroom set to hexen2, or a quake2 or a quake map

which compile tools are you using?

also, khreathor, what engine did you test it in? 

Naitelveni,

For your first map this is rather impressive. Your brushwork has a very distinct style...I got a mystical/medieval vibe from it. A great detail of filling out the background to make it seem like there is more there is a great thing to have and you do it well.

Lighting is decent enough, nothing overly bright but maybe some more shadow contrast would benefit the nighttime venture! I also like the textures you opted to use.

Gameplay is the weakest point here but that's to be expected as it is a doozy. Like Kreathor said, very vacant early on. Few encounters are fine at the start of the map for the player to get his surroundings but this goes on for a few stretches of rooms. Broken architecture is a great thing, but the broken up floor tiles feel awkward when walking around. Perhaps make them into func_illusionary or lower them by a few units. Additionally, be sure to make your waterfalls not solid brushes as it feels strange as well.

I love the vertically and small interconnection you are introducing and, on a first map that's impressive to attempt! I know on my first handful of maps I did not pay that any mind.

No music, but I am sure you haven't picked a track yet. Even if you don't use the music yourself, just pop a sound track into the worldspawn (2-11)

Another area to work on are the encounters themselves. Lots of times you open a door to a new room and there is a bathtub full of enemies waiting for you. Ambushes are done predictable after grabbing a key or hitting a switch...try to surprise the player. Maybe when you are walking under one of the bridges, a death knight leaps down from a higher level!

Hopefully this helps you fine tune the map. If this is your first offering than I am excited to see what you bring in the future!

I played the map with no issue on the latest QS. 

the download was corrupted, re-downloaded and it worked fine. 

The Pros:

I like the encounters, perhaps a bit busy at times, and may need to ramp up the quantity of monsters a little slower (consider a timer), but for the most part really tight.

Your level geometry is excellent, it is easy to see that a lot of thought has gone into the layout of the map. I really like ledge-jumping and exploration, so the SSG secret was fun.

Thematically the map is really consistent throughout. I really like the ceilings in your buildings and the detail you've put into the crumbling floors, ceilings, windows, etc.


The Cons:

It's pretty hypocritical of me to criticise this considering a recent map of mine used it, but the sloping geometry in the hallways in the starting area isn't a great idea in such narrow hallways, already it is quite squishy, but those slopes restrict movement even more. This isn't a huge issue because there are no mobs there, but it's something to think about.

As others have mentioned, your brushwork interrupts the player at certain points, consider func_illusionary or some clip brushes to may the player experience smoother.

The texturing is quite good, although the one place I feel like it could use a change is the staircase in the first outdoor area you encounter. I'm not sure if the contrasty blue rock / red wood works too well.


Overall really good job man, well done. 

Skill 3 demo, played with QS.
Nice little map overall, especially for a first Quake map. I really dig the aesthetics, the tree/hedges and the ruined scenery. There's a few texture and brush issues (nothing major though) and encounters/monster placement could need a bit of work in places. See comments in my demo: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwnUnvcoU4HFSURQVDRSQXg2Ync 

This is nice.

I'm not of the opinion that every room of every map must necessarily be packed with opposition, so the beginning didn't bother me. A decent lead in.

The visuals are coherent and pleasant, they felt fresh. Maybe one texture error - a patch of green grass in a courtyard of dirt.

Didn't have any problems with gameplay or balance - the difficulty is about up my alley. 

Wow!

I haven't really played the map (don't have much time at the moment); just wandered through it with cheats on to look at the brushwork & texturing, and it's really lovely! A little cramped, perhaps, but very, very nice for a first map, with a really distinctive visual style. Loved the tree!

Broken architecture is a great thing, but the broken up floor tiles feel awkward when walking around. Perhaps make them into func_illusionary or lower them by a few units.

...or cover the recessed parts with a clip brush.

[...] the staircase in the first outdoor area you encounter. I'm not sure if the contrasty blue rock / red wood works too well.

I like it and think it looks good. The texture alignment could be better, though -- specifically, I think the wood texture looks better when it does not follow the slope of the brush, but remains horizontal. Just my opinion, though!

There's some texture alignment weirdness in a few other spots in the map too, but I'm not sure whether that's important...

Are you making this for id1, or for a mod (Quoth/AD)?
If it's for id1, don't forget to include the skybox in your next/final version -- it really adds a lot to the map visually (I saw it when I loaded the map in AD, as I was curious whether some of the brushes were supposed to be breakable).

But again: really lovely work! Sorry for not giving more detailed feedback/no gameplay feedback at all. 

As far as Quake maps go, what value is best suited for which environment? Most maps I see use either 2 or 4.

Looking at ericw's example on his site shows that the shadow blends a bit more the higher you go...I think?

Finally I did a side by side comparison from my own map with 2 and then 4 and I am not entirely sure I see a difference! 

im siing trenchbroom 2 for mapping, for compiling im using EricW's compiler and for the quake client im using quakespasm. 

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

The starting area is still abit ugly, and im changing it as we speak, I added another ogre in the starting area and 2 super knights in the blue key yard.

At the moment of giving you guys this first test version of the map I didnt know about clipping brushes and illusionary. Now i have added it around the diffucult terrain to make the gameplay alot smoother.

total_newbie,
I will run thru the map to see about the texture alignment. Thats the type of feedback that helps me to polish the mep! :)

skacky,
im honored! :)
i will add clipping brushes, illusionary and double check for errors.

Shamblernaut
Thanks for the feedback!!
I know the hallway is tight, and i will make it wider and bigger. At first i made it small because i was afraid of long compiling times. As you may have read about my 10 hour compiling issue with my first map. XD
now that i know about func_detail im no longer afraid of bigger areas. Soofa took me 9-10 minutes to compile.

Bloughsburgh, thank you!
I will balance out the gameplay more!

khreathor,
Once im finished with my map can I get a youtube playthru!? That would be frikin awesome! 

Where do i place the demo file and what do i write into console when i have the client open? 

Type "playdemo [demoname]" in the console. You put the demofile in id1 or in the relevant mod folder. 

-Place the demo file in your id1 directory.

-playdemo xxx 

No need to repeat what the others have said. I liked the architecture in the green armor/silver key room, also your gateways with the larger part at the top. Torches planted on top of pillars and walls look weird, it would be better to just use a flame, possibly rising from a brasero/cauldron type of brush.
Combat isn't very challenging. It would probably be fine for skill 0 or 1 but I need more difficulty. You also should add a final combat in the exit room. 8 monsters never teleported in and stayed in their boxes outside of the map.

Be mindful of your triggers for secret count: it didn't activate when I first picked up the LG, only when I walked over a specific point in this area (same with the red armor secret). Usually, these triggers cover the entire width of secret rooms or are associated with the goodie.

Speaking of secrets, where is the third one? I couldn't find it, even when noclipping through the map - which, incidentally, oddly caused me a few instadeaths 

It's only a detail but you should make your water pipes deeper, or at least texture the deep end with a black texture instead of a wall texture. And check the orientation of the texture on ALL sides of your water brushes: the little bit at the top of the vertical brush moves laterally while it should go in the direction of the current. 

thanks Mugwump! I'll change the flame, you are right, on top of the pillar the torch looks wierd also on top of the wall. The third secret is near the LG. Where the wooden bridge is over the wall. youll have to do some advanced parcoure to get there.

Im working on a area that you are teleported from the gold key teleporter. first you get alot of pickups and then youll enter the final area.It will take me this weekend to finish this map. 

You got this. 

Anyone using J.A.C.K with AD mod? I've recently picked up this editor and it's great but I'm having some issues with placing entities. I don't know how well entities follow the grid in editors, but in Jack it feels especially wonky, am I missing something? For instance, candles placed 1-2 units above the floor still end up inside the floor brush.. help! :) 

Candles are to be placed 16 units above the ground. I think its mentioned in the readme or ad_quake.fgd.

Any other problematic entities? 

But it is supposedly fixed in the latest steam release. Haven't tried it yet. 

I can't remember putting them 16 above in QuArk but it sure worked in J.A.C.K. Entities just look a little off the grid, is that normal? Hogre box is huge compared to hogremac, what was the bug in J.A.C.K? 

Bounding box size and handles match the model. Should instead match the fgd definition. 

Is it okay come compile time if I have vertices that are "off the grid" in the editor? Does that work?

I know editing such brushwork is a nightmare, I'm just asking if the map compiles/renders/displays fine in Quake. 

but sometimes you get things that will make the player drop through the floor or similar.

If you need to go way off grid for your geometry, make sure that it is on detail brushes or unimportant shit that the player won't interract with. 

Your indications for the last secret seem to match the RED ARMOR secret, which I've already mentioned, so I thought it was obvious I wasn't talking about this one. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The two secrets I've found are the LG and RA. 

sry, i read your comments hastely. XP
The last then is near the goldkey door, if you make 180 dgree turn (at the gold door) you'll see the super shotgun.
then you have to manuver your self carefully to the edge of a rock and jump to the weapon, if you mess it up you'll drop into the void and die. 

Hi guys,
I took all the feedback, and made changes to the gameplay, also fixed floors with clipping brushes, and water with illusionary, checked for texture alignment(as well as i can), and changed the torches into flames in some areas where i thought it was necesary.

I watched Skaky's demo and it had some really solid feedback, and fixed the things he pointed out. (couldnt fix the first hallway texture alignment, i even tried rebuilding parts of it but couldnt make it work)


Now im giving you guys another version of soofa for nitpicking. Demos are excelent ways to point out mistakes in the map. If possible send me a demo where you pointout mistakes and fixes. This will be the last test version, after this ill fix everything you guys will point out and then I'll publish the map.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/sflnsw5jo9if45o/soofa_beta2%282%29.bsp


P.s. If i missed some fixes in the first round, I'm sorry. There was alot of feedback and i didnt write them down, but this time ill try be more precise. :) 

Some feedback:

1) Still loving this map, and excited to see it developing further.

2) I've played the previous version (properly) in the mean time and watched Skacky's demo, which has excellent advice. But maybe tone things down a bit for skills 0 and 1, once you implement skill settings. The map seems calibrated for skills 2/3 or for really skilled players at the moment. I usually play on skill 1, and at the moment I find this a little too hard/frustrating.

3) Texturing/texture alignment: are you talking about the hallway with the grey bricks on sloped surfaces, where Skacky suggested rotating the texture? It looks a LOT better now, but you could improve things further by decreasing the scale of the texture on the sloped parts slightly, until it more or less matches up with the rest. The angle looks right, though.

I still think the wooden texture on the staircase leading up to the SK door should be completely horizontal all over (as opposed to having one sloped piece, as it does at the moment) -- but maybe others would disagree...

4) Brushwork: I can't tell if you've changed this at all, but as I think others have pointed out too, the brushes on the edges of the map are cut off a little abruptly. It would look better/more convincing if you moved your sky brushes a bit further out and made your rock and wall brushes around the edges of the map a bit thicker/rounded/three-dimensional.

5) The new area towards the beginning is a nice addition, but it feels a little pointless at the moment, as there is nothing really there. Perhaps add a secret to this area?

6) Speaking of which, I feel that the cells in the little underwater alcove should count as a secret. Or if that's too obvious, maybe hide a secret door behind the cells.

7) I don't know if it's still incomplete, but I couldn't figure out how to complete the final arena and get the bars in front of the exit to lower. I couldn't trigger the door hiding the Shambler either.

8) The two windows that are on floor level in the final area look a bit weird too, as it looks as if you should be able to jump out, but then you're blocked by a skybrush. If you can't jump out, it shouldn't look as if you can -- so I'd say either make it possible to jump out (with a pain trigger/void if you're feeling sadistic or a teleporter back if you're not) or cover the window with bars or something. 

I've taken a few screenshots to illustrate some of what I wrote above. I feel weird about uploading screenshots of someone else's WIP onto imgur, so I wanted to ask you first if that would be ok. 

Demo with comments.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108695968/fornait.dem.zip 

Sure, go ahead. 

i don't know if it's only me, but i get a 'heretic' vibe in the silver key area. or maybe heretic mixed with quake. i like the style.


http://imgur.com/a/xiAC5
i can jump and bypass those iron bars and i did just that the first time and it worked. it's not a hard jump. 

Texture alignment on stairs: Note the misaligned textures above, and the sloped/horizontal combination beneath. In both instances I'd suggest selecting both adjacent brushes together, and then entering a new texture angle/offset value. so that the two textures have the exact same value (I'm guessing "0" in both instances, but it's been months since I've touched an editor). That will make them correctly aligned.

Textures on sloped bricks: Note the areas marked in black. You can fix or at least decrease this misalignment by changing the scale and offset of the texture on the sloped surface, until it matches up with the surface next to it. If you're using TB and using the arrow keys, I think you might need to set your grid size to 1 or 2 if you want to able to make fine adjustments -- but as I said, it's been a while, so I might be wrong here.

Map edges/rocks & bricks: This is what I meant by saying it'd look better if you pushed your sky brushes outwards a little and made your rocks/bricks on the edges of the map a bit thicker/fuller/more 3D.
Here are two more examples of where the rocks should be thicker.
Same thing here, only horizontal: those "roof" rocks would look better if they were a little thicker (and your sky brush higher).

Here you've done it right. 

In that one picture it's foliage, not rocks. But you know what I mean. :) 

topher
Cool jump! maybe someone will make a speedrun out it! There is a skip i left in the map on purpose at the last area, maybe someone will find it! If not, its ok.

total_newbie
I'll fix those stairs, sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.
Map edges, skaky had the same comment, so ill fix that also. I think ill add a void behind the brickwall so you can fall off.
"two" is actually supposed to be like that. Its a hedge wall.
the SK-Area rocks I will still fix. Thanks for your help!

Shamblernaut, watched your demo, i agree with the comments! I will add a void in the last area! good texture stuff. YOu got the secrets "correctly" ;)
the shootable buttons, ill change the texture! Thanks for the comments!

Tomorrow I'll publish my map and start working on a new one. 

sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.

Don't forget to play with "offset" too -- that'll let you move the texture up and down and side to side, until it lines up.

Did you use standard Quake format or Valve format for your map? Because using Valve format can make things a lot easier with sloped surfaces ... so it might be something to keep in mind for future projects (I don't think it's currently possible to convert an existing map from standard to Valve. But I'm hoping someone will make a tool to do just that, as I have a few maps I'd love to convert). 

i used the standard quake format in trenchbroom 3 

Hey, I'm going to do the last fixes to SOOFA, but my fingers are already itching to create a new map. I already have vague concept. I want to use AD 1.5 for this map How do i set Trenchbroom for AD? 

Entity Tab
-Click Show at the bottom
-Browse for More under the External section
-Select the ad_quake.fgd file that's in your ad directory. 

and in map tab
- click at the bottom 'Mods'
- enable ad (it will appear in Available column) 

probably a stupid question, but is there a unselect button?? 

In TrenchBroom 2? Esc to unselect 

thanks!!! 

Leaks: Are these a big deal? should I be aiming to have no leaks in a level? can I just copy paste and rotate non-player area detail stuff and not worry too much? are leaks mostly a problem in places where the player can actually go? 

Leaks are pretty bad. You don't want them ever. Your map must be sealed much like a water-tight container.

more here: http://www.quake-1.com/wc16a-tutorial/speed.html 

Don't worry, there should be pointfile after compiling your map. When you open your map, typo "pointfile" to your console and after that "developer 1" (1 = on / 0 = off). Then you should see White lines bouncing somewhere in your map. Try locate area where that Line goes ovet your map's intented boundaries and try figure out how to avoid it no go through for example some corners, maybe light is too near some possible leak area etc. Others correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I can visualize it (don't know about technical terminology) 

Some (I know TB2 does, I don't have experience with any others) editors allow you to visualize map leaks in-editor, which is nice since you can fix it while looking at it, decreasing iteration time. Otherwise, what NewHouse said is fine.

With modern computers, speeds in Quake levels are rarely an issue. But not everyone has a modern computer, and some people enjoy being able to play Quake on their older PCs regardless of whether or not they have a "better" machine available, so it's important to avoid leaks or poor sealing.

I'm not sure if it's actually worse than just having a straight-up leak in your level or not, but one thing that people sometimes do to avoid having to seal leaks is to encase their entire map in a giant cube of skybox. This is a very bad idea; yes, you can run .vis on your map, but it will take much, much longer, and besides that, you're still not addressing the root issue, which could end up having significant effects regardless of whether or not your map is "sealed". 

How do i know how to align my pathcorner entities? At the moment im using trial and error to correctly place my path corners, its time consuming! 

Knowing the orientation of East in Quark it takes the right lower angle. 

I could swear the path_corner must be at the lower left corner of the bbox on your pic Maddox. 

Thanks! 

In that (sensitive) case my east lies downwards. 

Whats the best way to split a brush? I've used the C tool and sometimes it splits a brush, other times it chops part of the brush off. What do I need to do in order to consistently split the brush?

Thanks 

when extracting corners the path_corner stays the same!

@-naitelveni: there's a nice trick you can use to enlighten your windows with this func_train.
Use a window as func_train, and add one path_corner some units before it. Give it the same target and targetname, and wait -1.

When starting the game the window has hardly chance to settle and will turn forward.
If you place a light just before it the front will light up, but as it is replaced now it looks as if the light comes from behind.
A little light before the wall will give it a small shine.

editor
map
screeny 

it's in the help document
help->Shaping Brushes->Clipping->Clipping Modes 

Check this post by Pritchard for a better understanding of the clipping tool: http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60908&start=2389 

Thanks topher, I should have checked that help file out, very handy.

I'm wondering about overlapping brushes - do they "plug leaks" say if I copy and past a bunch of brushes and rotate them so they're all intersecting, then drag a sky brush down to their top most point (and say they intersect with the floor brush) would these overlapping brushes cause a leak? are overlapping brushes generally considered a no-no? 

ah...
i don't know yet.

and put a screenshot i didn't understand either ,

i will ask the last question as well.
are overlapping brushes generally considered a no-no?

i think that overlapping brushed don't cause leaks, because leaks are holes. i don't know if they affect the lights.

i'm just cutting brushes, resizing them, merging them, etc,, for now. 

You can overlap brushes, some things benefit more from being clean cut but do not be concerned so much with that. Just be aware of z-fighting with textures.

Clipping is the best way to split a brush in TB. You can press CTRL+ENTER to cycle clip modes. 

Leaks are caused by either an exposure to the void or an entity with its origin in the void.
Overlapping brushes aren't very good practice, mostly because of Z-fighting and increased compile time. It's better if you can avoid it. Doesn't really matter if they're made func_detail though since these are ignored during compile. 

Overlapping brushes aren't very good practice, mostly because of Z-fighting

Doesn't z-fighting only happen with moving brushes (doors & plats) that move to the same coordinates as other brushes? Surely the compiled .bsp doesn't "know" if two world brushes have their faces on the same plane, because what texture is displayed gets resolved during the compile process.

Sorry, my terminology is probably all wrong, but hopefully you know what I mean... 

Go place two brush inside one another, each with a different texture. Compile it, run it in game, and report back to us with your findings. 

I've done it countless times with no ill results.

From a post by necros from 2010 (http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=10212&end=10212):

i don't know why, but overlapping brushes will cause zfighting in newer engines like q3 and d3. in quake, qbsp will manage to remove overlapping WORLD brushes without any issues. (overlapping func_ or other visible bmodels WILL cause zfighting with other bmodels or the world).
afaik, it doesn't cause any problems once the bsp is in the engine.

i'm not sure where we are atm concerning the compiling aspect of overlapping brushes. i don't overlap because i like to work clean, but it's just personal preference.

(emphasis mine) 

Now go do it in Hammer/Source ;)

Its just a bad habit that you wouldnt want to carry into other game engines. 

Had overlapping brushes for the pillar lights at the end hanging from the ceiling. Other than that it was an excellent map. *nit pick* *nit pick* 

Overlap corners, don't overlap faces.

Also, someone actually referenced something I said as advice! Neat. 

Thanks for all the help all.

I've had an error compiling my current build, not too sure what a "non convex face" is, or how to fix it, but it seems to be the problem:

http://imgur.com/EHxdeAB

I tried deleting all the recent brushes I had added, but it still seems to happen. Any idea what I should be looking for so it compiles?

The map is currently wide open, void everywhere - is there a limit to how open a map can be to compile? can I plug gaps / skies later on? or even just make a sky box enclosing the limits of the map? cheers 

"CheckFace: Face with too few (a) points at (x y z)"
"CheckFace: Healing degenerate edge at (x y z)"
"CheckFace: Healing point (x y z) off plane by a"

I have no solution for it but maybe readme and check the related polygon in the map file. 

The map is currently wide open, void everywhere

with surounding walls, bottom and sky. 

Why would you want to seal your map if you're not running vis? I tend to leave the areas I'm working on open until I'm ready to move on to the next one - I only bother sealing them then.

As to non-convex faces, I'm not sure how you managed to achieve that but an editor shouldn't let you create an invalid brush like that. If you do find the culprit, and you're using a modern editor like J.A.C.K. or TrenchBroom, I'm sure the developers would be interested in seeing it...

Which -options are supported by that compiler? I would see if there's any way to get more information out of it. It's strange that it doesn't provide any coordinates in the error. 

Any of you guys know of an extended runic/metal texture set? I've found a few more in kdmtex.wad but more choice never hurts. I'd especially like to find all the different runic tiles in both glowing red and "switched off" versions (id1 is missing some in each variant). 

I always build fully sealed and error free as I go. I only run a full vis every so often, but I like to know the map will compile properly without errors before putting too much more work into it. Fixing problems is the least fun part of mapping and I wouldn't want them to pile up. 

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/texture_wads/rmq_darkmet.wad

rmq mqade some runic addons. there are more, idk where to look atm.

rick does it right. 

Also yeah, so far I've done just like Rick. 

provide leaks in early stage.

@mugwump: Might not be the same wad but why not try Runewad? 

A workflow discussion: I can't nail down a specific time frame but a general estimate is every 10 minutes or so I do a full compile. Yes I vis everything and light everything dozens of times per mapping session. Reason being is my current map is probably about the size of one of the large id levels. Vis'ing takes well under a minute maybe a tad longer. But I work on everything in a map at once. Geometry comes first, then game play and then tweaks to lighting and texturing, then back to gameplay. It's very chaotic way to work. (I know.) I ask this here because I'd like to hear other people's workflow in the hope of getting my act together. I'm not looking to get faster per se but I have a lot of room for improvement and I am always open to new ways of working. As far as saving... I save as much less often. It seems that each new area becomes a save point and if I don something risky that could cause a leak or break logic or expose a bug in the editor, I will do a new version of the map. 

Well I managed to fund the culprit - a single brush seemed to be preventing compiling. I'm not really sure why though. I'll just keep test compiling as I go to make sure I'm staying on track.

Interestingly the non-convex face error comes up even when the map compiles and runs fine... not too sure what the issue is there but it doesn't seem to be "structural" 

If you open the map with a text editor,
you can view the structure of the map file.
A rough trade is looking at the warnings
and see if the brush consists of six sides.

If I want to make really sure why a polygon keeps "troubling"
I change all texture names behind the six polygons with a white texture.
When opening the map in an editor I can see which brush in particulary is causing the error.

Of course I use ericw compilers. 

My workflow changes as I learn more mapping techniques but to answer some of your questions:

I compile whenever I want to test something I just set up. This could be a few monster spawn triggers, to a new lighting placement, or even a single brush I want to see in action! When working with lighting, I often always do -extra4 and -soft to ensure I can see what the final product will look like but sometimes just -soft if a minor change was made.

If I do not have a leak, then I always compile with the -fast VIS just to save time. When I want to do a full playtest (Start to finish) I will do -level 4.

If by save you mean physically save the map file then I do that probably every time I add something that I know will stay for the time being. Ctrl+S is muscle memory and TB handles autosaving for the grievous mistakes.

As I stated above, my workflow changes but I am starting to see grey boxing out large sections is the way to go. Like G1ftmacher said before, if you can get through the basic layout then you can get to the more personal mapping phase.

So my workflow would be at this time:

-Brainstorming, mind layouts, inspiration.
-Basic layout of large sections
-Basic texturing of said sections
-First pass detailing
-First pass lighting
-First pass gameplay
-Detailed texturing
-Major detailing and lighting
-Then it gets to a hodgepodge of all of the above but fine tuning.

I am always curious to see what other people do. 

This method is not everyone, but so far I have liked breaking map into multiple pieces, sealing then right away, layering everything and startjJust testing and make it fun. Naming goes something like this: mapname_areaname_version. Then slowly starting to combine these already tested areas together and make compromises Just then if need to be made.

The biggest problem for me personally has been that, even if you just prototype areas, Quake is not really good at that. Everything basically has to be in certain state, before knowing will it work or not. That is why I find working with separate files more efficient. Normally when I do simple layout (ideas) on paper, I don't know about values what they are going to be at the end. Also if making a hud of your map where many paths connects. You suddenly realize you have gone too far, when focusing on something, you thought was important atm (I like to assume everyone does that at some point), it is impossible to go back and visualize everything again, if there is no backups been made.

So my current method is not to think too much about trying to connect everything right away. I am sure everyone has their own way, it would be interesting to hear more like how people layout their maps? 

So Bloughsburgh, you have a very structured workflow compared to me. Funny how I work on game play and lighting very close together per section and interchangeably but you segment those out in steps. I am all over the place! Also I meant "Save as" - like a new version of the map - I guess with TB and other modern editors auto save makes this less of a concern. I am used to the old days when one CGS operation could scrap hours of work.

Newhouse, very interesting that you break the map into smaller more manageable chucks. I am a professional video editor and I often use the same technique on an edit. If I am working on a 60 second TV spot with a 5 second montage - I bust that montage out into a separate piece so I can really focus on each frame in the editing program. This might work for me.

This is all fascinating - I hope others will jump in a share their workflow. 

Dunno anything about workflow but my method so far has pretty much been make-it-as-I-go: I work on one room until I think it looks good then I move to the next room. I'm just not the kind of guy to plan ahead, I'm better at improvising. 

Looks like I'm not the only one then. As I think about it, I'm realizing all the issues I am having in my map are because I grey-boxed and planned ahead. 

Sometimes planning ahead is impossible, when working in a situation you're not familiar yet. Maybe after, planning ahead becomes more effective. 

To be clear, there are certain global end goals that I do define beforehand, but the way to achieve them remains purposefully improvisational. This is how I work as an artist, in music as well, as I have found with experience that it allows my creativity to take me to unexpected places. I never made anything good with a very defined plan. 

theres a vine texture in AD that I want to use in my map. and I also want to try transparency with brushes, like in sock's metal monstrocity. How do I achieve this? 

Set the brush as a func_illusionary. This allows players/monsters to walk through the brush. You can use the flag "alpha" to set transparency. Honestly, just open up the metmon map and check it out yourself! :) all the authors .maps are included with AD. 

I haven't completely greyboxed a map either...but I have a significant visual plan in my mind of how the layout will be. Ultimately I go room by room and wing it to achieve said layout. It almost always deviates from the original. ;) 

Vines in AD are a combination of a texture with palette colour 255 and func_illusionary. They do not use brushes with the alpha key set to achieve that.

Engine support can be a bit of a hangup - mostly DarkPlaces, since the first download offered on the site is from 2014 or so and doesn't have support. Other modern engines and newer versions of DP support transparent textures just fine though. 

I mention "alpha" in conjunction with "func_illusionary" because he asked about transparency, not because I think its required for func_illusionary to work.

I typed my initial response while still in bed. I should've spaced out both ideas. 

The alpha value will not have the desired effect - the entire brush will be transparent. The vines in AD are entirely non-transparent, but the rest of their texture is. That's completely separate from the alpha value of the brush. 

In an editor the textures will look something like this: https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1LSsZWB4Oc0pSm2QDhsSz0fQmW_B5cYNCIy8IXZq4D_0yXWajB9_ySaPj 

The vine feature is called "fence textures" or "alpha-mask textures".. the texture name also needs to start with a "{" character.

(sidenote: it's possible to make them work in the 2014 build of DarkPlaces, AD does this by supplying .tga files. There is a "fixtrans" command in DP that helps prepare the .tga's) 

Most of the techniques I employ are derived directly from "top tier" maps.

Func_illusionary + alpha is in use in ad_necrokeep to good effect.

http://imgur.com/a/2S7ZP 

sidenote: it's possible to make them work in the 2014 build of DarkPlaces, AD does this by supplying .tga files. There is a "fixtrans" command in DP that helps prepare the .tga's
I didn't know that. The September 2016 and newer builds, however, do support alpha-masked textures from the get-go and don't need this command.

@Pritchard The DP site at icculus doesn't seem to be maintained these days. The new builds are not in the /download subfolder but in /files (which is, of course, not accessible via the on-screen menus). 

i have 15 water brushes. there aren't gaps or intersections between brushes.
i tested the map in quakespasm and i can swim without problem of any kind.
can i expect problems or bugs with what i did?
weird bugs, problem with other engines, something like that.

http://imgur.com/a/cqDlp

(i put this message in the QUMP thread, but here is better. i can't erase the other message) 

i'm having problems compiling a map, i have everything set in a profile but i keep getting a error "execution of command 'C:(the path of the .bsp compiler)" andt1.bsp' failed (error 267: the directory name is invalid.)" what do i do??? 

Make sure all your directories have names without spaces. 

none of them have spaces :p 

also, when i try to launch it, this "W_LoadWadFile:couldn't load gfx.wad" appears, the engine is Quakespasm 

I assume you are compiling in Trenchbroom. I am willing to bet you have a small typo or hard to find syntax error in the setup. I am pretty experienced and that interface is too much for my tiny brain. I would suggest downloading and using Necros' compiling utility. Just keep it running and pointed to your map and alt-tab to it when you save. It works beautifully and is very easy to use. After you have it setup all you will have to change is the mapname when you Save As... or start a new map. Download it here: https://www.quaddicted.com/files/tools/ne_q1spCompilingGui103.zip 

i don't know what i'm doing wrong. it seems like i've set up everything correctly, it even compiles(it seems), but the .bsp file doesn't appear in the output folder(and in any other folder). 

http://imgur.com/a/l5klI

uuuuuh...dumb question of the day..why are surfaces multicolored? 

Solved thanks to scampie via twitter.

My .lit file wasnt updated 

i post my config:
http://imgur.com/a/0vqvZ 

@Ranhcase
Did your map used to compile? or are you trying to compile it for the first time?
If is did compile, perhaps try deleting some of the more recently added brushes (save a new version first!), particularly any that overlap.
I've had a similair problem where the map wont compile, and each time it was due to a single brush that must have overlapped in a strange way. 

this message is caused by the working directory.
launch the game from a .cmd or a .bat

this line ensures the correct working directory, which is the directory in which the binary file is located.
pushd "%~dp0"

and '%*' pass all the arguments to quakespasm.
quakespasm.exe %*

so, a .cmd script with this two lines
pushd "%~dp0"
quakespasm.exe %* 

i forgot this:

the .cmd file has to be located in the binary folder. quakespasm.exe in my example. 

Yay, Saturday Quake Fever!!! Ah, ah, ah, ah stayin' aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive! 

Take my advice and try necros' compilier gui. It will take less time than posting screenshots here etc. Give it a shot. 

my map never compiled, not once. 

that's what i used!!!! the second problem i got with compiling is in that! 

Okay let's try a few things.

Search for your mapname.BSP and try and find it on your machine. Take note of where you found it.

Next make sure it's been placed in your maps directory under id1 folder. i.e. C:\quake\id1\maps

next, start quakespasm, bring down the console and type map <your map's name>

does it run? let us know. 

that's the problem, i can't find the .bsp, i don't even know if it is compiling correctly, i've looked in every folder present in the setup, but there's nothing there 

I know this seems like grasping at straws but if you are using NecrosGUI, completely remove it from your computer...download it ago and set it up again.

There could be some corruption or other snag that happened. I had this happen to me one time and I was completely puzzled until I did what I said. 

i did that, and it didn't helped... could it be something with the map instead? 

Try to create another map and attempt to compile to see if it appears in the output folder!

Also, if you never got this to work...verify you have permission to write to the folder. (Doubtful but you never know.) 

it still doesn't work. and i do have permision to the folder. 

You have your parameters set completely wrong. Look thru the trenchbroom help and copy whats there word for word. Thats all i did to get mine to compile. 

*** WARNING 12: New portal was clipped away in CutNodePortals_r near (1692.690 -17.259 408.000)

Is this basically when two, or more, brushes that butt up against each other get off by the smallest amount(almost impossible to spot) that they aren't truly flush with each other?

This is in a large scale map with lots of rotation and shearing usage. Editor is J.A.C.K. 

i copied word by word, but at the end i get three errors, and the .bsp file doesn't appear 

http://imgur.com/hkp5qmA 

copied again, exactly like it is in the picture, with
the correct .exe files of the compilers, but the same thing happens 

If you're trying to compile? Have you tried this program yet? https://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/utilities/ne_q1spcompilinggui/ 

yes i did try it, it didn't worked. 

Can you share your file? I will see if it has something problematic going on. Otherwise, you just need to write down right output / working folder paths. Output could be your quake/id1/maps folder, and I think working folder doesn't really matter? I just made new folder "working_folder" under id1/maps folder. I can only assume compile went fine, but you couldn't just play it?

No any errors on compile console? If you open your Quake.exe and open console, type "maps", scroll and try to find your map if it is there. Then just type "map yourmapname", and see whether or not your map starts. If not, then let us know what does the console says. 

Also Create New folder "Utils" under quake/ folder. Download and unzip these https://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/
To that folder. Open Settings and go preferences, set Tools folder path to that Utils folder.

Mark also that 'Run Quake' and Set Quake Engines path to your Quake.exe you're using, it can be for example Quakespasm.exe / darkplaces.exe etc. And try combiling again. 

it doesn't compile, the .bsp file isn't created. i have the compiling tools set up just fine too. and no, in Necros compiling GUI or whatever it's called, there's no errors messages. also, you want the map file, or the compiled file, because if it is the later, it doesn't exist 

Map file. There is email address on my profile page. 

no! nevermind, it compiled finally! thanks 

Glad it finally compiled. 

no!!!! nevermind, although it compiled, it doesn't have lights, they don't show up no matter what i do! although the first time i did it, it was alright, but then i had to change somethings, and now it the lights don't appear! 

Make sure Light is checked if using the GUI.

Check your output folder for a .lit file of your map's name. Delete, and re-compile and then see.

Keep at it and we will figure it all out. 

i am using the GUi, and the light is checked.

i can't find any .lit file in my quake folder though. 

The .lit files should be in your id1\maps folder, I think, alongside your .bsps 

 

Do you have Light entities on your map? 

How to make door not stop opening or closing if it mashes some enemy to the pieces, I have been trying to create zombie masher, but soon as it touches zombie, masher stop and goes back up immediate. How to make it go all the way to the ground? 

Give the door "wait" "-1" (along with the toogle spawnflag and a trigger to keep it going.
Or use a func_train. 

If -1 wait basically makes it stay open/closed after triggering it once.. is this "toggle spawnflag" something different? 

Should I trigger at the same time also trigger_relay and make that rise the crusher back up later, after waiting couple seconds (delay)? 

The wait value makes it crush things to death in order to fully close, the additional toggle flag allows it to open/close multiple times.

For permanent, constantly moving crushers the func_train solution is better. 

 

i know the .lit files should be in the id1\maps folder, but they are not there, and my map does have light entities on it 

This is just a warning. This may be caused by planes that intersect at very acute angles. Check for "invisible walls" near the area specified. If you don't notice any problems it can usually be ignored. Making sure all vertexes are on a grid of 4 or larger might help. 

Have you done a search on your computer for your bsp's .lit file? Maybe it's been saved somewhere else for some reason. If not, maybe check your saving output paths? 

i've done that, all .lit files are from Hexen II, and i'm not mapping for Hexen.

Also, is there a tool like the necro's gui to compile maps, but for Quake II? 

Thanks for the info.

I think we may have found a way to fix and avoid getting the errors, as well as not scrapping the map, yay. 

Not sure what you mean by all .lit files are from Hexen II.

Necros' GUI is just an interface that uses external tools. Trenchbroom 2 supports Quake II mapping and has a built-in compiling interface. Its configuration is a little less n00b-friendly than Necros' but should work fine. 

.lit files are only created if you use colored lighting. There is no point in looking for these if your lights are all desat. 

A few questions:
Does light compile fine? No errors? Are you sure your light values are correct? When you launch the map, is everything pitch black or fullbright? 

Some light tools do generate .lit files even if there are no actual colored lights in the level!

However, a map with standard lighting (=no colors) does not need a .lit file as the normal lightmap data is baked into the .bsp file. 

light seems to compile fine, atleast there's no errors there. when i open the map is fullbright

so Necros's GUI supports Quake II? Because, i do know that Trenchbroom 2 has a compiling interface in it, the problem is that i never managed to get it working.
Also, what i mean is that all .lit files are from Hexen II, not Quake 

What happens when you type r_fullbright 0 in the console?

negke: interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I don't really see the purpose though. 

nothing happens 

so Necros's GUI supports Quake II?
I have no idea but if Q2 tools are similar to Q1 tools, I don't see why not. Like I said, it's just an interface that runs external programs.

what i mean is that all .lit files are from Hexen II
Yes, you've already said that. I suppose you mean that searching for .lits on your computer only returned results belonging in your Hexen II folder. 

Yes! Exactly, searching for .lit files resulted only in Hexen II files 

So I've been trying to make a button which causes part of the wall to move out to create steps so the player can walk up to an otherwise inaccessible area. I had some trouble getting it to work, and I think I did... but I have no idea why it works.

Basically the button is a regular func_button and the two steps are func_doors. My initial setup was to have the button trigger both doors, each of which has a different lip key (they are the same length in the direction that they move) so they form steps when opened. When I tested this, however, they both moved the same distance. Then I set it up so the button only targeted the bottom step, and the bottom func_door targeted the top one. When I tested *that* they didn't move at all.

My next plan was to return to the original trigget setup, give the func_doors the same lip key, and make the bottom func_door longer in the direction that it opens so it would extend father before reaching the "lip distance"... but before I tried that I went to fix some other things and just deleted all targets and targetnames associated with the top step so that only the bottom one was set up, leaving the top a normal func_door with no trigger setups... and *this* made it do exactly what I wanted it to do.

So why did my first attempts not work, but my third attempt (which was not even a real attempt) did? 

Are your steps(func_door's) touching each other?

Try the "Don't Link" spawnflag under the "flags" tab(or wherever you set entity flags in your editor).

Should be good to go. 

http://imgur.com/a/KjrgN

after one week i'm starting to build rooms.
my first room!

it's weird. i never made any type of art, but i can see pouring my creative energies in this way.

but the monsters don't get any ilumination when they step above the bars

i have a func_wall with skip textures because monster don't walk otherwise. i tried putting a regular brush with skip or clip textures and it didn't work.
but, in any case, that's not important in this room.

the problem is when models step above the bars they get rendered totally black. even when i move all the brushes to world 

Create a func_button with "target = steps"

Create a func_door(s), your steps, with "targetname = steps"

^^^ steps need to be separately created as func_doors or they operate as one. You probably know that.

If your steps touch each other set the "Don't Link" spawnflag.

You have to set direction for the steps. In this basic setup without modifying any lip values the button will open the doors in which ever directions you set for a distance of their length minus 8 units.

Hope this helps.

Also, the button triggering one door and then that door triggering the next door... worked for me. 

I believe monsters(models) take their lighting form the "lowest" floor.

Meaning that, wherever the monster can walk(horizontally), all lighting needs to be consistent across 3D vertical space for the monster to be lit correctly.

I recently had this issue as well, it drove me crazy. 

@damage_inc, they are touching; I didn't know touching func_door brushes would "link," that's probably what's causing both the "correct" and "incorrect" behavior. I think I can puzzle out what is going on.

And now for an unrelated question, which texture WADs have some cool stained-glass windows? Aside from id, rogue, and knave. 

Off the top of my head, there's a large one in Chicosruin. 

I set this off always. Most of the time it's not what you want.

Daikatana has some stained glass textures as does Wolfenstein (RTCW). 

Why Door that should be open after trigger_counter calls it, it opens when some other door opens near it? Don't link doesn't work, I tried all kinds of possible combinations and nothing. What should I do? (yes, I'm doing vanilla Quake map, no mods) 

I know you just stated so but be sure that ALL func_doors near the issue have Don't Link checked. It could be just one side of a door that is the culprit.

Secondly, make sure there isn't a targetname on one of the func_doors that could be causing an issue. Triple check both sides of the doors just to be sure. (Assuming you have 2 sides to each door.) 

how does one force mobs to infight? 

Setting aside the possibility of an elaborate high radius, low damage explosion with the owner somehow being assigned to a specific monster and initiated with negke-like trick ...

It is not possible because monsters do not look for other monsters, they look only for player.

Maybe you could change the QuakeC, but then it isn't id1 progs. 

Thanks, I'll check those WADs.

Finally... would Nihilism Unlimited care if I put the zer tree model into an AD map? I'm looking at the zer readme now and most of those emails look like they're dead as a doornail. Alternatively if anyone has an uo-to-date info for someone on the team.... 

Darin McNeil (the main Zer programmer) works at id, maybe you can ask them: http://www.idsoftware.com/en-us#section-contact 

It's a pretty shoddy model from a 1997 freeware mod, you can use it. 

Aren't there brush-modeled trees in some of the AD maps? If you're concerned about this, you could just copy these as the sources are included and permit re-use. 

in the top floor section, where you fight the necromancers. 

I just made an asset for quake trees.
Maybe there's something of your interest?

Q1Tree 

Is it a thing that a fiend will cause double damage if it leap attacks you while you are in midair?

I have a section where you are swimming upwards, and a fiend has a chance to leap at you. Every time I get hit by the leap I die instantly. I even had Yellow armor at 100HP! 

sounds like the fiend instagib bug where a fiend will kill you if it lands on your head - this has been in quake right from the start (feature lolol) 

Ah that describes what is happening. Hmm, I basically have an insta-kill "trap" at the moment. I'll have to re-work something. Thanks Kinn! 

it happened to me being gibbed by one of that leaps
you may be right, but i can't recall correctly when or how much health i had

but the player can be gibbed normally, because gib threshold for the player is -40.

acording to quakeC
damage of leap:: ldmg = 40 + 10*random();

perhaps the demon is jumping again in mid-air? 

The fiend deals damage in every every frame to each entity that it collides with, until it is resting on the ground. In a normal sideways leap the first collision stops the fiend's horizontal movement, so it doesn't collide with you on the second frame because it's not moving towards you.

Two things go wrong when the fiend attacks from above. Firstly, landing on a player doesn't count as resting on the ground for the fiend, so the attack animation continues after it hits you. Secondly, although the first collision cancelled its vertical motion, gravity accelerates it down again next frame, so you get repeated collisions. It isn't doing any more damage than normal per collision, it's just multiple collisions that stack to create near-instant death.

In Quoth there's a crude fix to this problem - leaping monsters can only inflict damage once per leap. If you're mapping for the vanilla jam then there's no workaround other than making sure the fiend can't attack from that far above. 

Thanks Preach, that about explains every facet of the fiend dilemma I could be having. I moved the fiend back a bit and his jump hasn't one-shot me in about 10 tests (Since you are now more or less horizontal with the bastard at the time.) I may leave it this way or just slap an ogre down instead. 

.. do Fiends have eyes ? 

Yes. 

No, but before you gib, you do have about 1/100th of a second to look up and possibly resolve the age-old question of "do fiends have willies?" 

To both eyes and willits. 

 

Poor guy... 

not even in the doomworld forums. How much of the id old guard remains anyway? cloud, willits... is that it? I suppose stratton should be counted too. 

How do you remove wind ambient sound in vanilla Quake? 

add -noambientsky to the vis command line 

 

Help me! i have no clue O_o

i've been compiling maps in console with windows, and now im tired of rebooting my computer everytime i want to map.

i need a total beginners guide, step by step. 

 

it didnt help me, its alot easier on windows to create a .bat file :/

please, i need help 

Have you tried using Automator to generate simple batch file? 

please tell me more. 

in TB2? Shouldn't that do what you want? 

 

TB2 can launch your compilers for you, so you don't need to create a batch file or shell script. You have to set it up though, it's under Run > Compile in the menu. 

The pathing was all screwed up, the automatic system didnt work for some reason, and I had to rename all the parameters in the runtools.

Thank you Khreathor for helping me! :) 

You're welcome :)

@SleepwalkR
We figured it out through TB2, as you suggested. 

In modern level editors (e.g J.A.C.K. or TrenchBroom v2). 

If you mean things like rock walls and bumpy ground then this is a great guide:

http://www.simonoc.com/pages/articles/rockwall1_1.htm

You can use the same tutorial for ground terrain, just make it less pronounced. 

and with tyrutils-ericw light.exe you have phong too!
it really helps like sock says 

I was soooo confused by landscape until TrenchBroom and its Vertex Manipulation came along.

Everything clicked after that. 

@Bloughsburgh, thanks for link.

@topher, thanks for note about tyrutils-ericw. Yes, I use this compilers.

@mukor, now i trying use Trencchbroom2 for create simple structure, but while it turns out badly :( This editor is very hardly for me. 

 

I've been creating MP maps for a long time but SP is a new world for me and I do enjoy it. Wondering what enemy combos work more effectively and which ones don't work for other mappers? I have the tendency to combine a bunch of monster types but I'm not always happy with the results. Especially after seeing demos of my retrojam map.

Infighting is cool but I think it gets in the way of gameplay a lot so I need to keep learning about monsters placement and combos. Any input is appreciated. 

I used J.A.C.K in past year. This good replace for classic WorldCraft1.6 and GtkRadiant 1.5. 

The basic idea in creating worthwhile battles with multiple enemies is mixing enemies of different attack types. ie projectile and melee or land and flying enemies.

sorry for being so brief, im on my way out the door. just wanted to get something out there in case conversation picks up in my absence. 

In AD mod at least you can check "noinfighting", that is something I am going to use also. 

I was unaware of that. Nice. I haven't even gotten to 1.5 yet. :( 

But since it changes a lot of things, it has to be introduced to player somehow. Only way might be letting player to make mistake in a non-dangerous situation, if not using text messages and stating that fact directly to the player that something is changed and the experience might be different. 

Dumb question but my mind is fried.

What would be the reason when I push a button the texture doesn't switch to its off texture?

These are just the standard quake symbol textures I've used plenty of times before with no issue. The same thing is happening with shoot buttons as well. I thought maybe it was the .wad but it is happening for any +# textures for buttons.

Blah! 

Are you including the +abutton frame in your map anywhere? Some compilers don't automatically include the animation textures, try applying that frame to a hidden face on a brush and recompile, then see if it works that time. 

I thought all the modern compilers fixed that problem, but yeah that could be it. I used to always include every texture in the sequence of any animated textures on a random brush somewhere, just in case. 

Question:

Why does my double door start open when the level starts...but then closes after it's designated wait time. It then acts like a normal door from then on out.

Trying "Don't Link" causes the doors to not open at all. They do not have a targetname and are set to just be normal doors.

"Start Open" is not checked.

Da hell. 

Ugh, hate when I figure something out after finally submitting to asking.

Apparently doors want to try to open themselves for one time at the start of a level if there is a func_button nearby? What's the explanation for this occurrence? Solved but moving the button a few units away...but the button was already about 16 from the side of the door.

Is there a trick to making this work? 

Ahem.. this is a bad solution but, try giving all of them targetname, that way I fixed problems on my rj6 map. (I guess warnings about not using targetname, isn't critical?) 

I think you have something else going on to cause your doors to act like that.

I have a "junk.map" that I try things out in when someone posts a problem like this. I couldn't duplicate it :(

I created a brush, then shift drag/copied it right next to itself, set each one separately as a func_door setting their open directions to opposite each other. Didn't do anything else to them.

Then I created a func_button and no matter where I placed it, my doors didn't open on map start. I even had the button inside the doors!

I'd say spend a few minutes creating a test map and see 

I guess my above post is finished enough even though I accidentally hit submit instead of preview :(

Anyway, sorry couldn't help more. 

Yeah I have no clue, but the only thing I do know is that moving the button to another place in the room away from the door resolved the issue.

Thanks for trying to test stuff out! :) 

I even had the button inside the doors!
I didn't know that was possible! Did it work fine? It's giving me an idea for doors in base/tech environments. 

Only Quoth (afaik) has a special func_button variant that can be attached to a door:
https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/quoth/tutorial/func_door_button/ 

I just made a small hole in the door, I mean once the door opened, you could look into the frame of the door into a hole where the button sat. 

don't kill, the light, just turn it off by targetting it. 

okay, disregard that, i was replying to a question 700 posts ago. 

 

That's aweso... oh, Quoth. Damn. 

Does DarkPlaces not support { alpha textures?

I am using vines from ad_start.wad and it works fine in every engine but DP...I get the pink texture along with the vines instead. 

Uses the latest autobuild and the vines work fine so that's great.

But there is a kicker. Does DP support the alpha key on func entities?

Looks like my func_illusionaries are using alpha 1 even though set to .65.

Blah, as long as the vines work that's cool with me. 

Post #18000, nice.

Also, I'd be very surprised if DP didn't support brush entity alpha. Perhaps it was broken in the most recent autobuild or something? I wouldn't know, I don't use the engine. 

DarkPlaces supports .alpha, but it must be a field in the progs.dat

Since id1 doesn't have an .alpha field in the progs, stock id1 in DarkPlaces won't support .alpha but Quoth or Arcane Dimensions would since they have a .alpha field in the progs.

FitzQuake automatically "inserts an .alpha field into the progs at load time" if protocol 666 is being used, so the progs doesn't matter. 

.alpha is a fully transparent entity, like a translucent glass window.

Entirely different from alpha masking "{", which current DarkPlaces autobuild does support. Using "{" will simply "just work" all the time in any supporting engine. 

Works in my DP's with stock id1, I just tested it. You use "alpha" btw, not ".alpha".

Also, I know in Gotshun's Jump map we used "alpha"(for translucent windows) and { (for the alpha masked frame) together for the windows and it was stock progs. Worked fine.

Just relaying my experiences. 

Just a box map with a player start, 2 lights and a func_wall with an alpha key set to .6

Note that, I only got this effect with func_wall's, illusionaries and detail was no bueno.

http://imgur.com/a/VmOhL

DP build is in the console, but I'm pretty sure this has worked for years for me. 

Thanks Baker that pretty much explains the current situation. The { work fine I just needed a newer build but the alpha key does not...and it also explains why Quoth and AD work but not id1.

damage_inc: Ah there we have it...my issue is happening with func_illusionaries...I actually do not have any func walls using alpha. Thanks for testing! 

Hi all, how do I make a func_door that does not get blocked by a player/monster? (i.e. just keeps crushing without going back) 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=4&start=17910&end=17914 

i dont understand this.

why cant i compile?

http://imgur.com/a/9UTvn 

Impossible to tell. Check the compiler .log files; presumably QBSP failed for some reason.

By the way, you run VIS with either -fast or -level 4, not both in the same command line. Fast is for testing, level 4 is precise one for release. 

Thanks! 

i dont have any 

compiling is very difficult... 

compailing is very difficult 

i had to reboot into windowa so i can compile 

Since there are many new mappers here - I recommend doing some research on basics of compiling a map.
This may be a starting point. BJP's Q1Tooltips and his Vis readme contain some useful information for troubleshooting and general knowledge, too.

I'm posting this, because in recent releases I noticed some levels were leaking and/or unvised or only fastvised, and that may have been due to a lack of understanding and possibly the uncritical use of compiling GUIs or in-editor scripts. Maybe run each of the tools in a command prompt window at least once to see what happens, or look for log files in the corresponding directories, e.g. qbsp.log. I'm critical of GUIs and script for reason that there's a risk of them swallowing important warnings and error messages which then go unnoticed for the unaware user.

On leaks/VIS: the basic idea is that a map must be air-tight, completely sealed off to the "outside", otherwise QBSP will report a leak. Another way to recognize a leak is by noclipping outside of the level, and if you can't see the interior but instead the backsides of the outer walls, you know something's wrong.
In this case, QBSP will generate a .pts file. When placed alongside the .bsp in the maps directory, you can use the pointfile console command to display a dotted line leading from towards the leaking spot. Some editors can load the .pts file as well. When located, it can be plugged; usually it's obvious and straightforward, though occasionally it can be quite obscure. More often than not a map has several leaks, so you may have to repeat the process.

Once the map is properly sealed, and only then, QBSP will generate a .prt file. It contains information on the vis portals the level is made up of, so to speak. This file is required for VIS to calculate the visibility of the world ('what is visible from where', so the game doesn't have to render the whole map at once)- without it, VIS cannot run.
There are two command line switches for VIS that matter here: -fast which does a quick but sloppy calculation used for testing purposes, and -level 4 which runs a slow and precise calculation = the one you must use for the final release. Depending on the size and structure of the level, this can take a while (although with multithreading tools and detail brushes, it's not much of a problem these days). A fullvis is important. Don't listen to people saying it's not because modern systems can handle it and so on!

To get an idea about how it works, you can check in game: using Fitzquake or Quakespasm, load one of the original maps and type r_showtris 1 in the console, then walk around and see how stuff appears and disappears if it's sufficiently blocked by other geometry.

By the way, the .vis file is just an autosave of the current state of the VIS process (because you can stop and resume it if necessary). After the job is done, the file is useless. Don't include it in your release. 

by Bengt Jardrup, v0.19 Jan 12 2007

Almost 10 years! 

I know I know... don't shoot me.

VIS's only function is to make a map play "fast"/smooth right? Meaning, have the best frames possible. But with PC's today, even my old rig here, all levels typically play fast.

One night at Gotshun's we were looking through some of the large levels and were surprised to see quite a few had no VIS at all. Or at least "showtris 1" didn't show that anything was being removed/hidden from view.

This is why I ask this question. Is there some other benefit?

OFC, there's no ambient sky and water without at least running -fast(true?). 

Ignoring world polys for a minute, I think only having to deal with the entities that are in the PVS has a big benefit - a coder should be able to explain better. 

Don't be ridiculous. With proper mapping and use of func_detail, full vis will take seconds on a map that would have otherwise taken months.

Nowadays light is an exponentially bigger bottleneck in compiling than vis. 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61178&start=68 

DarkPlaces doesn't support per entity alpha unless the progs supports the field

Here are pictures of the map petes1, which I believe you are familiar with ... and these pictures show the lack of translucency ...

DarkPlaces October 2016 build | DarkPlaces January 2017

Possibilities:

You have something in your Quake folder you don't realize. DarkPlaces reads every single pak and pk3 in your Quake folder regardless of the name, and will load any free floating file sitting around.

Plus there is an extra Windows directory under "Users" where something could have downloaded and it'll read from there too. 

I thought the last dp build was from 2014? where can I find these later builds? 

Here's my test DP's Quake and id1 directories:

http://imgur.com/a/1bVeR

pak2 is simply the watervissed maps and pak3 is mine which is simply a different console background.

I have no clue why it works for me, strange. Sorry if I've misled anyone. 

https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/download.html
The links under "Latest development autobuild release (updated every 6 hours)" 

I checked the size of my pak0.pak(17.8 MB | 18,689,235 bytes), it matches what is in the QuakeWiki(1996-10-01 14:25:58 18689235). 

thanks, hidden in plain sight :P 

Don't know. Being the master of your own Quake folder is something everyone personally has to bring to the party. ;-)

Keep in mind Bloughsburgh asked why DarkPlaces doesn't support entity alpha for stock id1.

Why would he make that up?

/If you see what I mean there, haha ;-) 

That being said, I did some more tests and there is some sort of X factor going on here.

Perhaps something not well known about DarkPlaces.

I did a rough test with an external .ent file and it worked. But petes1.bsp doesn't?

So something strange or not well known is happening? 

Baker:Keep in mind Bloughsburgh asked why DarkPlaces doesn't support entity alpha for stock id1.

Why would he make that up?


Bloughsburgh:damage_inc: Ah there we have it...my issue is happening with func_illusionaries...I actually do not have any func walls using alpha.


He wasn't making it up.

IIRC, petes1 works as intended in QS but the brush settings are to subtle then for DP's. I to thought it didn't work, as well as someone on here, I forget the name of the person... but it does.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and hope it doesn't come off that way. I just want to know ;) 

I did some more tests using external .ent files.

And entity alpha does seem to work in DarkPlaces?

Yet petes1.bsp doesn't? Not even when using Quoth.

So ... perhaps you are correct or there is something missing piece of information that would explain this?

I do know that historically DarkPlaces required an alpha field in the progs.dat to support alpha, which is one reason mods like Quoth have that field.

But apparently this has changed, and I get that because that's just the nature of engines adapting.

But I don't understand why it isn't being consistent.

+1 mysteries of the universe.

Looks like damage isn't insane and is in fact correct.

Baker's example may be correct and should show entity alpha, but doesn't but perhaps for different reason than the current topic.

Then again we still have Bloughburgh's example?

Conclusion: Hell if I know!!! 

I wasn't trying to be either.

I think we both had good intents and wanted to get to the bottom of this.

Weird stuff. We both had affirmative examples, haha.

/Oh well ... 

With this link: https://icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/files/?C=M;O=D you can even access all builds sorted from most recent to oldest. I suggest keeping this link handy. 

IIRC, petes1 works as intended in QS but the brush settings are to subtle then for DP's. I to thought it didn't work, as well as someone on here, I forget the name of the person...
petes1 is Gotshun's Jump, right? In that case this person would be me. I originally thought the alpha on the windows didn't work but in fact it does, though it is indeed much less obvious than in QS. 

YES, Jump and yes... you! Since we haven't conversed much I couldn't be sure it was you.

For just a map release you can't have both a QS setting and a DP setting for things. So we went with the highest common denominator, QS. Especially considering the <3 DP gets around here :-P

Also, to make matters worse for me using DP, I have both upper and lower sky scroll slowed down. Until you posted I didn't remember that :( 

Especially considering the <3 DP gets around here
Not wrong. Though to be fair, Func_ is not the be-all-end-all of the Quake community. QuakeOne has more people who are only players, and while DP gets much more love there, you don't see many people talking about QS or Mark V...

For future maps, why not release two versions, one geared towards the Fitz/QS family and one for DP? They could both be included in the same archive to avoid a mess of engine-specific releases at Quaddicted. When I'm ready to release maps, that's what I intend to do if I notice such behavioral differences. 

I'm always afraid I making my maps too dark. I'll load up the id levels from time to time to do an eyeball comparison. But is there some more "formal" way of ensuring maps aren't too dark?

Maybe a way to measure levels on a screenshot in Photoshop or a similar method? 

If your monitor is properly calibrated and your Quake set to default brightness/gamma, then if it's not too dark on your screen it should be good for most people.

Of course, there's also a matter of taste at play here: someone like NewHouse tends to make rather dark maps. I like it but I remember some people complaining about it when he released his first map. You can't please everyone. 

http://imgur.com/a/K40Wh

my question is:
if i have those two brushes, with non-integer vertices but with integer planes,, i can expect problems in-game, or weird qbsp problems?
how well qbsp handle rational numbers? 

I like to have a bit of overlap in my brushes in that situation, so if things get rounded off or otherwise mangled they usually turn out okay anyway. 

Intersecting brushes are generally okay. You can sometimes get odd lighting at the junction/seam where they meet. You could also create basically the same thing with separate brushes that have all vertices on grid. 

how do i get to actually test the level at its current state, what i mean is, when i try testing the level it says that the .bsp file doesn't exist on the maps folder, and if it was there before, it can be run but any change made won't appear. or is that not possible at all. 

You should always be able to test your maps.

Without more information, there can only be three possibilities.

1)Your map has an error that stopped the compiler from creating the .bsp

2)You are compiling to a directory outside of "id1/maps", OR "your MOD/maps" and then not moving the file into the corresponding maps directory.

3)You are creating for a MOD and not launching with the -game "your MOD" parameter while having your .bsp saved in the "your MOD/maps" directory.

I think I covered it! HTH's 

I don't think you understood me, or is me that is not understanding you well, i wan't to be able to test the map from the buil-in tool for launching the map, the "Run/Launch" tool

1)i managed to compile the map and runs fine in Quake 2

2)i'm compiling the map just fine. the .bsp file is in the base2q/maps folder and it is runing.

3)i'm not creating the map for any mods, just normal, clean Q2.

:/ 

What editor you use foe Q2 mapping? And what compiling tools you use for compile your map? Show log of the your compiling process. 

He mentioned it before previously, but not 100% certain though. 

Yeah, it seems I didn't understand.

Is it that the "Run/Launch" tool doesn't have all the right path's setup?

I don't use TB so I'll stop here, hope you get it fixed. 

yes, i'm using trenchbroom to map for q2, i think i've set the right path in the launch tool, but i'm not sure anymore... 

If you're using Trenchbroom's built-in compiling interface, it should look like this: http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60908&start=2480 

Did you try to manually put the bsp into the right folder and run a map using console command in game? 

Pay attention to point 4 in the pic from the link. 

You should post a screenshot of your compilation profile, i.e., the window from which you compile the map so that we can see if something is wrong with the paths. 

i don't think i expressed myself very well, i can compile my map, any map, the thing is, i can't use the launch tool in trenchbroom to 'launch' the map from trenchbroom. Again, the map can be compiled, without any issue, is just the built-in launch tool that's not working...i don't even know if this is the right place to ask this. 

is just the built-in launch tool that's not working
And this can be caused by a bad path in your compiling interface settings. As Sleep said, posting your profile could help pinpoint the issue, so do that. Have you checked the post I've linked in #18052? 

I think this: ( http://i.imgur.com/omHjQeN.png ) is what you want 

No, your compiling profile: click Run then Compile... A window pops up, this is it. 

Don't forget to actually select your profile in that window, so the desired informations are visible, before taking your screenshot. 

no mugwump. hes showing the right screen.

he has no trouble compiling or running his map in game. hes having trouble using trenchbrooms game launcher.

this would be better off in the trenchbroom thread, that being said.

but, to help with the problem, what version of trenchbroom are you using?

i believe previous versions had that feature broken.

Im using RC1 and it will load the map set up exactly as you have it written.

https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/releases/tag/v2.0.0-RC1

1. Is your map a part of a mod?
2. Can you load the map in game?
3. What happens when you try to launch with those given parameters you have typed in? 

mind you im using quake and not quake 2 to test this, but it should be exactly the same. 

I see a previous post of yours that answers my questions, Rahncase. Aside from number 3. let me know what happens when you try to launch the game with your current parameters.

Hopefully the version of TB I linked solves the issue. 

Are you telling me the author doesn't know how to troubleshoot his own program? 

Sleepwalkr misunderstood what he was asking for is all.

Once you start coming through with some compiled maps, Ill let people take advice from you. 

The problem appears to be that the compilation profile doesn't properly copy the bsp to the required location inside of the game (probably baseq2/maps). That's why I asked for that, and not for the launch dialog, which seems fine at first glance. 

He did SAY the bsps are in his baseq2 folder which is why i figured you maybe misinterpreted.

What sleep is saying is that at the end of your compilation setup you need to include "Copy Files" to move the necessary files from your working folder into your baseq2 folder.


Heres how mine is set up for Q1:

http://imgur.com/7FiizBR 

i don't use the compiling tool from trenchbroom, i use a .bat file for compiling maps, i didn't managed to get that working a single time, and i can't figure it out at all (here is the setup for the .bat in case is necessary:( http://i.imgur.com/2E0xDj4.png ) .


trenchbroom 2.0.0 RC1

1)Is not part of any mod.

2)i can load the map in game completely fine

3)when i try to launch those parameters it runs the previous version of the map that is present on the /maps folder, if theres no .bsp file there, it says that the file doesn't exist. 

the problem lies in your .bat. i dont what EXACTLY, but its definitely the problem.

In order to solve this i went ahead and learned Q2 map compiling and have a basic set up for you to copy.

first, if you dont have it already: download this: http://www.quake2.com/qworkshop/files/colormap.zip and extract it to baseq2/pics.

second, to get trenchbroom setup for compiling follow this: http://i.imgur.com/TIgJJ78.png

use the "+" circled in red to add each step of the compiling process.

In place of my locations for the compiling tools, use the "..." circled in green to add the locations of your tools.

This got a simple test.map to compile and run in standard quake. I launched the game from trenchbroom using the same parameters you currently have set: http://i.imgur.com/vsKkWmt.png 

i just copied word by word from the image you send

it didn't work :/, here's the output http://i.imgur.com/HRGPMee.png 

Youre telling QBSP to process a bsp file. it needs a .map. i underlined where i got this from:

http://imgur.com/iHxGKV1

Refer to my previous post and make sure youve copied everything properly. 

it seems to be working fine now, but the copy file process isn't running. 

no, nevermind, the copy file process is running as it should 

So to clarify:

You can both compile with trenchbroom AND run your compiled maps from trenchbroom? 

In the compiling window, the box that has "..." does not work. I did manage to get the compiler to work in mac but i find it more difficult than building and running a batch file in windows. 

Nait, please report that to github: https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues

or allow me to do so on your behalf, if you dont have a github account/dont want to make one.

i strongly encourage active participation in reporting issues given you are currently doing a lot of mapping. plzkthx <3 :-* 

i dont have an github acccount, you can make the report on behaf of me. 

it would be cool if compiling maps would be totally automatic. You would have an Export option in the File menu and it would give a popup window with all the possible options that can be checked or unchecked and then you just press OK. 

Have you looked at this:

https://shoresofnis.wordpress.com/utilities/ne_q1spcompilinggui/ 

I've been using batch files and Windows 7 for nearly a decade without problems. Most issues can be avoided by not letting Windows think for you.

Put your Quake folder directly in the C: drive, keep your maps, the compiling programs, and your .bat file in Quake/maps 

Thanks! ill give this a try, i think with windows creating a bat-file is quite simple. and thats my main way of compiling with mapping on windows, with macs i dont know how to create batch files 

What is this "surface lighting" people have been talking a lot lately, when and how to use it? Is there certain techniques I need to know? 

Scroll down to the bottom of this page. Super helpful feature in ericw's compiling tools.

http://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/ 

Really don't get it. Delay 2, light 150 is really strong combination. Then You have to pick texture for that _surface key, then it reflects it all over the place? Is this kind of replacing colored lighting in some cases, remember Pulsar talking about using it for lava in his explorejam2 map. 

It emits light from the texture you set in the _surface key. Pretty simple concept, really.

Have a light texture? Use surface lighting to make the texture emit light. Instead of placing a bunch of light entities, you only have to place one with _surface set. 

You can color the light or change the keys any way you want. That's just an example there. I believe there is a way to adjust how far from the surface of the texture the entity is placed and how many are placed over a large area. The default is 4 units from the surface and every 128 units a new light is added. It's all in the readme. So go map but go RTFM first. :P 

Sorry I read it, and I don't understand it.

So it.. reflects light, does the light need to touch something or not? Or will it be automatically value for every surface texture (brush that has that texture).

Will then brush's face that has that same texture.. reflect light around it or what? 

Sorry I'm over-thinking everything to be too complex, that is why I can't read manuals like you guys do. 

You have one point light entity with a texture name set on the _surface key

Now this one point light is considered a template and will not display light from itself.

But any texture with the name specified as the value in the _surface key will have that point light template applied about 2 units above the surface. You can use the _surface_offset (Maybe not the right formatting) to adjust how far the light template is from the texture.

So you could have 1 point light used to cast light from all of a specific light texture. 

Now that makes sense, I simple prefer more practical answers. 

This will good for plats and trains, and all kind of places where light wouldn't touch otherwise, right? 

As I remember, you place one master light to define all the properties. One of those is the texture name. The others are all the normal light key/value settings. When light.exe runs, it automatically creates a light entity, with the properties you defined (brightness, delay, wait, etc), some number of units away from (in front of, below, above, etc) every surface with the texture you specified.

For surfaces above a certain size (64x64?) it starts adding more lights. This is where I always had problems. The way the surfaces were subdivided seemed erratic and unpredictable. Maybe that has gotten fixed, it's been a long time since I tried it. 

You'll have to go into the editor and decide for yourself where surface lights could be used best.

The example of ericw's site is a good case for it though. Where any place where the small rune texture is used it gives off light.

Delay 2, light 150 was just an example...you could do anything you want. If your originally plan was to place a point light with a high wait value on every instance of a rune texture then _surface lighting makes a great deal of sense!

I haven't played with surface lighting all that much but for when I did it worked quite well. I still like to fine tune values for individual sources however as different room sizes can change how the light is displayed.

You can also make the _surface lights act as spotlights with the _surface_spotlight key and value of 1 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxYkKdSD855cUlrYVl1Vk14WDg/view?usp=sharing

It feels like it doesn't light everything equally, maybe that is something to expect.

So should it be like lamps, rune icons etc. and not plane surfaces? like in my case I tried to use texture I used for extending platforms. 

I think that has to do with a new surface light being added every 128 units. So if you have large planes you are going to get some subdivisions and not the good Rush kind.

Lamps, and light textures in general are a much more suited option. 

But then again, it only works for maps where every light source from one specific texture is somewhat designed to be same, same range and intensity. Surface lighting would be good for giving this .. "ambient light" feel to some places that doesn't have much real light sources like fires, lamps etc.

You thinking about the same thing? 

What is difference between delay 3 and 4? 

maps where every light source from one specific texture is somewhat designed to be same, same range and intensity.

That's generally how lights should be...consistent so surface lighting could be beneficial here. In terms of ambient light where there are scarce sources of light then I just think of delay 5 lights. 

Oh sorry, I use delay 2 and delay 5 together.. delay 2 would be consistent of course. 

Is it possible to make door call target again, when it closes? For example I'm trying to turn on some lights when door opens, but when it closes it turns off lights. 

this could have saved me so many light ents.., 

So the issue is that the lights are targeted again when the doors close?

If you just want the lights to turn on when the door opens for some initial wow factor then just put a trigger brush in the doorway. 

If you target a light with your doors(only one though) yes, every open and close cycle of the doors will turn the light off/on or on/off(spawnflag set to "start off").

If you give both doors the light as a target nothing will happen. 

testing again... 

Sorry for the confusion.

From what I tested, it seems you'll need to set the door to "toggle", then set up a trigger brush to open the door and turn on the light. Then copy that trigger brush where the player will hit it again. Setting up delays and resets as needed.

BTW, the door and light can have the same name, the trigger brush will activate both.

If I left it up to only the door to trigger the light it only worked for either the open OR close operation. You couldn't get both. 

I don't know. Neither sounds very useful so I've never tried them. 

Thank you, timing will be hard to calculate though.. if only there would be closed event to know exactly when it is actually fully closed.

Func_train have these corner events, but re-creating door to be func_train might not be wise move. Unless it is easy to create func_train behave like doors, also including same sounds like door's have. 

func_train as a door which triggers the light ;)

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/misc/func_train_ex_Newhouse.zip

If you need an explanation let me know. 

More experienced AD mappers, here is questions for you.
How do you use func_train's corner_route, corner_switch and corner_pause, is there any maps already using these a lot? 

now i know why the orange box is called the orange box

there is a pack of developer textures for quake like those in HL2 ? 

After some testing it seems like I can use trigger_once, disable it and then reset it when needed. Since func_train door has only two states: open / closed, triggering that same trigger_once in a right moment makes it behave like doors, by that mean they open again. 

Without extra triggers/complications.

In the example map I posted in #18110, all you need to do is give path corner 2(p2) a wait value(wait at corner) that you want.

Ex: Giving it a wait value of 4 would be 4 seconds before it closed.

I gave both path corners a -1 wait value just to demonstrate the functionality in a controlled way. 

There is no problem with wait atm.

All I need to know atm is how do you change path_corner state from forward to alt forward? I use Corner Event to set active trigger again to check if player is near the door still. 

Better question, how do you make it change path_corner's state only when trigger_once calls it? 

It might be best to send an e-mail to Sock himself if you do not find your answers. I can't think of a test map that uses the corner events but it is described in detail in the AD readme. 

I tried but I don't know what you want anymore :(

A door has an open position and a closed position, thus, using a func_train as a door requires two path corners. The door targets the first path corner... then the first path corner targets(target of forward route) the second path corner with the second targeting the first. So they loop.

I can't envision what you want since that is a door. It can be toggled or close automatically same as any door. Using standard triggers or buttons targeting the door.

Either way, hope you get it sorted out. 

Thank you for helping me. I will try to understand what readme tells me, before I bother Sock too much.

Here is picture to help you visualize what I'm trying to do:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwxYkKdSD855UWF5bVpRUm90NWc/view?usp=sharing 

Seems back in the day people tried to keep targetnames short. There even is a switch in some light tool to shorten the names after compiling. What's the reason for that? Did old engines have issues with long strings or was it memory consideration? 

So I recently started fiddeling with trenchbroom.
I figured most of the stuff but I dont know how to do skyboxes.
My other request is to find out how to make a certain music track play.
Thank you in advance.
Ps.: I've just set up an amazing double helix staircase and cannot wait to show it off. 

Skyboxes
In TB, when you add some texture wads to your texture collection menu. Some wads has simple skybox textures, their name starts with sky it seems: something like sky1, sky_stars etc.

You can place brushes with those textures, and they will work as a sky. What I know, you can only have one sky texture.

Music
when you click whatever normal brush, you will have keys listed on your right side window. Search through them and find the key "message". Type number on empty textfield near it and it corresponds the track number. 

"sounds" not "message".

To use a skybox instead of a sky texture, specify the skybox name in the "sky" field in worldspawn (same entity as where you specify music) 

 

Why would you use sky field in worldspawn, if you need to seal map anyway? 

Lolwut 

The texture given in the sky field replaces whatever sky texture you use in your map for the skybox. It won't draw sky on void areas if that's what you thought it did. 

correction for clarity:

replaces whatever sky texture you use in your map for the skybox

replaces whatever sky texture you use in your map with the skybox 

Not much, but surely might be useful if you get bored of your current skybox. 

something like this?

but with better scale, bigger and more spaced, i suppose. this shit i made it in fifteen minutes and it's too cramped.

http://imgur.com/a/yQ9Fv

also, look in the entity inspector:

key 'sounds' value '07'. that reproduces track07 music in-game. 

Only a single helix, but no steps.

http://quaketastic.com/files/screen_shots/jam66601.jpg 

Hi all, i'd like to fiddle around the Arcane Dimensions QC - what's the best / most recent compiler - is it FTEQCC? 

and...just as I posted that I notice that FTEQCC is credited in the AD readme - I guess I just answered my own question then? 

I found a video about skyboxes https://youtube.com/watch?v=aB3vgFVV_Ac
The reason I want to have them in my maps is simply because they're the up to date solution of showing sky in outdoor areas. On the other hand I dont want to use default sky textures.
-End of rant- 

Skyboxes consist of 6 textures(think of a cube) which represent back, down, front, left, right and up.

These are stored in

<your Quake directory>/id1/gfx/env

OR

<your Quake directory>/<your MOD directory>/gfx/env

Usually they are named like this as an example:

gehenna_bk.tga
gehenna_dn.tga
gehenna_ft.tga
gehenna_lf.tga
gehenna_rt.tga
gehenna_up.tga

The last two characters(bk, dn, ft, lf, rt and up) in the name before the extension(.tga) denotes where they are to be placed in game.

When assigning a custom skybox texture you ignore the last two characters as the game engine expects those.

So, if in the console using Quakespasm you typed: sky gehenna_ Quakespasm would load those textures I listed above.

In Darkplaces it's loadsky gehenna_

And... in your editor, in the worldspawn key for "sky", you would put "gehenna_" for it's value.

I don't use TB but it ws posted above how to do that.

Now, anywhere in the editor where you assign ANY normal sky texture(you have to do this), in game it will be replaced with your custom skybox.

Noting that, depending on the orientation of the surface you assigned the normal sky texture to, would dictate which skybox texture would be drawn. Again, think of the skybox as a cube surrounding your level.

hth's 

In case you haven't seen this site - you can make you're own randomized skybox: pretty cool - although I always stick to "retro" skies. Just my preference.

http://wwwtyro.github.io/space-3d/#animationSpeed=1&fov=80&nebulae=true&pointStars=true&resolution=1024&seed=58l9983tau4g&stars=true&sun=true 

how to change from .dfx to .bsp 

how to change from .dfx to .bsp 

I know that your question was already answered somewhere in this thread.
Which editor do you use?
The common bsp/quake level editors, such as J.A.C.K., Radiant, Worldcraft, or Trenchbroom give you a .map or .vmf which then has to be 'compiled' to .bsp
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Getting_Started_Mapping
Here's some info you might find helpfull. 

Is it right to use Scourge of Armagon soundtrack for custom maps? What about Dissolution Of Eternity soundtrack? Quickly googling, I just see links where to download them but nothing about copyright. Even files I downloaded through steam, don't mention about copyright at all.

I'm just asking, because some of those tracks aren't that bad I would like to use them, but only if it doesn't create some kind of copyright war or something like that. 

I imagine there's a team of copyright sleuths working round the clock trying to hunt down guys like you who are trying to put a game soundtrack file from 1997 into a free user-made map from that game.

Ten years at least if you get caught. Better edit your post, stat. 

 

Trenchbroomhelp???? 

 

 

I'm trying to pare down my JACK setup to just base id Quake and I can't get entity models to show up. I am using only the quake.fgd that came with JACK, id1 base game directory, no mod directory, and only base Quake WADs. The FGD's entities seem to list models with them, but they do not show up in JACK. Do I need to unpack the pak files for them to show up or something? 

His beta 5 version: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/quake4ericwTools.fgd 

I'll give it a try, thanks! The JACK FGD seems to be pretty limited and actually doesn't include some of the entity model definitions, had to add them myself. I wonder what id worked with in the beginning... 

Just had to add the info_player_start model and everything else looks pretty good. Thanks! 

So I wanted to convert a .map from Quake's standard format to Valve 220, mostly because some of the details I wanted to achieve are simply impossible in Standard format as far as I can tell.

There are a few editors out there that seem to load standard format and then save it in Valve 220, like J.A.C.K, but when I try and use the resulting .map in my compilers it spews a long stream of errors/warnings and fails, and loading it up again in TB2 crashes the editor...

So, my question is, is there a better way to convert a .map? Or, alternatively, is there a way to un-fuck all the brushes after converting it?
I'm uploading the "fucked" version of the map:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/9rygba032vxyl7l/it%27s%20fucked.zip

Also feel free to let me know how I'm dumb for not starting the map in Valve 220 in the first place. 

 

That fixed the errors at the start, but it still won't compile due to all the suddenly malformed brushes. 

Before the 220 format change attempt? 

after 42 days of using an editor i can say this:
a) i have no problems with the technical aspects, or making relatively complex brushes
b) i have problems making sense of the scale and size of things. i'm checking maps and taking notes, so it's not that bad, i will get all this by my self.
c) i have problems with actually making good rooms, good gameplay, have consistency, etc. in other words, i know how to make things, but not when or why to use them to make a good map.

i'm not asking tutorials or tips. i just want to know if this is tipical.
i just need more practice right?

i was expecting that in 1 month i could make a decent (5/10 stars) map even when i don't get some technical stuff, and it's happening the opposite. 

I'm using JACK 1.1.1064 and I'm having a really weird WAD issue. If I install a WAD and try to single it out in the texture browser, none or only a few of the textures show up. However, they do show up in the 3D viewport, so they're not missing. I've also recently noticed that they appear to show up in other WADs. I have the 5 part Quake set of WADs and I've noticed the entirety of the Knave WAD showing up in one of the Quake WADs. I've also noticed Sock's Egyptian pack in another of the Quake WADs. I'm so confused. Has anyone had this issue before?

Here's what it looks like when I click only knave.wad in the texture browser. You can see only a few of the hundreds of textures in the pack.
And here's some more of the Knave textures showing up in quake.wad.

What gives? 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/410j5skkwoo9byj/pritchard1.map

Here's the current version of the map in standard format. If you can figure out a way to achieve what I could not, I'd be eternally grateful. :p 

You are using TB?

I imagine since you are not talking about the .jmf format.

Anyway, even your regular .map has errors in it when I load it in JACK[invalid solid structure(tiny edge)], and a few others.

Now, in JACK... what about a "select all/copy" then a "File/new map/paste"? Followed with: Save/Save as, which will be a .jmf file and lastly, an Export map?

That's what I did. And as far as I can tell, I got a 220 map format version.

In Worldspawn there's this:

"mapversion" "220"

If I paste the differences(the actual brush text) of the .map files it won't make sense here on func_. I'll just say it looks like 220 stuff is in there?

I don't have a dropbox account, sorry:
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/misc/pritchard1_test.zip

I don't know a whole lot about the .map format differences though, tbh.

Hope this works for you, fingers crossed ;) 

How could I forget this darnit :(

I couldn't get it(regular .map version) to compile without attempting to fix the brushwork errors.

I use tyrutils-ericw v0.15.9 and get stopped with a convex brush error message. I have no idea how it compiles for you! 

Also, if that works when you try, make sure texture lock is on when you do it. Otherwise your textures will possibly get misaligned 

That map contains corrupt brushes, see https://github.com/kduske/TrenchBroom/issues/1697 

@SleepwalkR Yeah, I figured that the 220 format map had busted brushes, since it complains about non-convex etc. when I try and compile it.

@damage_inc it's strange that you can't compile the normal version, I know it might have some funky brushes in places but it only complains about leaks in my compiler. I've attached a build log as proof: http://pastebin.com/B1RJAqHK

Also, the map file in your link still crashes/fails to compile - what did you do exactly? It still has non-convex faces. 

All I did was give you a version 220 of your map which contains the same invalid brushwork as your regular .map!

My mistake was assuming your .map compiled(it doesn't for me) and subsequently uploading something worth nothing :( Apologies, I figured this out after it was to late.

I believe all you need to do is fix your invalid brushwork and save your map. Then start a new version 220 map and copy everything over to it?

Your problems start with the original .map regardless of how you can compile it! Which is crazy considering we both use the same version of tools.

Here's my log file output: http://pastebin.com/jd6e68PR 

try Alt + P in JACK and see if it can fix your problems. 

 

@kreathor, sadly it cannot. Many of the errors it suggested it couldn't fix, and the ones it could "fix" resulted in affected brushes being stretched out into infinity etc.

I think I'm just going to have to deal with the Standard format limitations at this point, it compiles fine with no errors for me and annoying skewed textures are just something I'll have to learn to deal with/avoid. 

http://i.imgur.com/r1foDCg.png

I'm sure this has been asked here before, but I'm not sure how to search for it in the thread - what is the best way to do alpha-masked textures in Quake, so that they don't have issues like in that screenshot? I know that you can make a brush into a func_illusionary as one fix, but this texture is being used as part of a func_door... 

A very stupid question, but where can I find documentation on how the editor works? I've been searching for a while now but besides a FAQ and a list of reasons why it's great for Quake, I can't seem to find anything explaining the editor :S 

The official JACK FAQ page has some information. The support page on the same site also recommends you check out a VHE 3.3+ reference manual, since JACK is very similar to GoldSrc VHE.

I recognize your name from MapCore, aren't you already pretty familiar with the Source engine Hammer from CS:GO? JACK shares much of the same UI, shortcuts, and tools from VHE and Hammer. 

what is wrong with the screenshot? 

Right in the center of the image, where the fence texture'd brush meets the solid one, you can see a gap that lets you look straight through to the other side. The gap is as thick as the fence-textured brush. 

Basically, in this instance, you want the grate texture to appear on both sides of the door?

Make two brushes for that part of the door? 

Using "skip" on the other sides of that brush? 

meh, a func_door is okay with skip. It's world brushes I was thinking of. 

I ended up fixing my issue by making the fence texture into its own door entity, rather than including it in the door itself. 

Hey guys- I'm sure this is one of the dumbest kinda questions, but I can't for the life of me seem to figure it out. I'm messing around with the play_sound_triggered entity in Quakespasm, and I feel like at one point I was able to kill the entity via trigger, but for whatever reason I can't now. Is there a way to stop a sound from playing, or am I just totally mis-remembering things? 

Thank you! I will look for a VHE 3.3+ reference manual.

Yeah, I'm from Mapcore but I'm a writer/director, not a designer. It's just that you guys keep making these awesome maps so I want to give it a go.

I only have experience with GTKRadiant 1.4 

Why not use a Radiant editor then? There are several Radiant-based editors you can use with Quake. I believe this custom NetRadiant is the most up-to-date at the moment. 

It supports Quake.
http://icculus.org/gtkradiant/ 

Yes, thank you. I'm aware of that. However, I specifically picked this editor because it's supposed to be a lot like Hammer. So, if I like editing and I wish to pursue it more, it would be an easier transition then with another editor, since Hammer is still being used in (modern) games. 

I quite like JACK, I think you'll find it easy enough to pick it up. 

I assume you are aware of Help>Command List... from the menu in JACK? 

When I visited Bremen last year, I photographed many brickwalls because I wanted to make some textures for quake. I talked about it in the inpiration thread and khreathor showed interest.
Here's a dropbox link for some samples:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1x338wm7glu9wpe/Bricks.zip?dl=0
I've still got a few others in store... 

I did one texture from DSC01759.JPG, because it was the worst "scenario", from what you have provided. I'm working on a tutorial, should be ready tomorrow.
Bricks
as WAD
in-game screenshot

I haven't fixed all flaws in this texture. Bricks are too wide and white mortar doesn't look good. From my experience bright colors don't work well in Quake.
But you'll be able to fix this. 

That one was the worst szenario because the shot is from an angle, am I right? Or was the colour the problem?
When this is 'finished' I should upload it to Quaddicted. 

Screenshot from the game: http://i.imgur.com/5EnM15i.png
The gray rectangle is a nodraw texture, you can see other parts of level through it. But it's a part of 1 brush which looks in the editor like this: http://i.imgur.com/4jL0oCS.png
How can quake make 1 face with two different textures, and how to fix it? 

That's actually just a good old-fashioned HOM ("hall of mirrors") glitch, which qbsp will occasionally shart out for no obvious reason.

The "fix" is to try rearranging your brushes in an attempt to make qbsp chop them up in a different way. 

Alternatively, turn the troubled brush it into a func_wall or some other entity. Of course, that might also lead to a leak if the brush is touching the void. 

Hey, if anybody knows where to look at existing map hacks, if those are documented?

In case of vanilla quake, I wish I could make triggers be active after certain events, like the area you once passed through but now it has triggers that activates certain things. 

Sorry I might have been too busy reading these, I guess Dormant triggers is what I'm looking for.
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Map_based_hacks 

Point your face towards: https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/category/map-hacks/ 

There's also a thread on this board called "Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks." 

Thank you~

It seems like it has all the existing hacks? Is all working hacks going to get there, which are discussed on that thread "Teaching Old Progs.dat New Tricks"? don't know why but it seems to be pretty busy thread in overall. 

Logic gate triggers using spikeshooters are the classic way of having "triggered" triggers. I've used them several times with no problem. They do require extra entities and models to implement. 

And the idea of doing it with spikeshooters looks even more terrible when you can just use the neat solution linked in post #18192 

I had at least one version of a Radiant based editor that didn't get along well with the brush based info_notnull method, but other than that it has worked fine for me. 

Quake uses lightmaps, correct? Is it not possible to edit the luxel density? 

"_lightmap_scale" "n"
Forces all surfaces+submodels to use this specific lightmap scale. Removes "LMSHIFT" field.

I believe this is what you're looking for? its in tyrutils-ericw. 

requires engine support too.
and by that, I mean it only works with fteqw. 

It's only possible to control lightmaps globally, and even then only in one engine? 

Quake uses lightmaps, and the luxel scale is hardcoded at 1 lightmap sample per 16 texels.
Since you can control the texture scale in your map editor, this give control over the lightmap scale as a side effect of changing the texture scale, but you can't change them independently (in vanilla quake). Skacky's map jam5 map is an example using 128x128 textures and a texture scale of 0.5 (iirc), so it has double the normal lightmap resolution: https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/func_mapjam5.html

The flag mukor mentioned, and some others in my light tool, are more or less FTEQW-only extensions 

Thanks, that makes sense. Do you have a Steam account? I have some more questions, don't want to pollute the thread with running dialog. 

Yep, I'm just "ericw" on steam. I wouldn't worry about posting here though, since other people may have the same questions too :)
(or http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61211&start=701 if it's about tyrutils-ericw) 

I think I added you, found an ericw with negke on the friends list. 

How do you make noise gate or blocker in Quake1? 

Surrounding the monster... 

 

In this case ogres are patrolling and they keep making noises a lot, this area is suppose to be secret area and noises are kind of giving away that location. Should I try to give an extra box surround that area? That doesn't sound logical, right? 

give them the ambush flag, they'll be silent (I think) 

@Shamblernaut
They have ambush flag, but since they are patrolling their chainsaw scratches the ground. Don't know is there an another flag to remove that sound effect. 

If its id1, youre out of luck.

If its AD, check the "NoIdle" spawnflag. 

Quake doesn't have any clever way to muffle a sound by building extra boxes, you can hear them if they are near enough regardless of the geometry. So we need to find a way to stop the noise being made in the first place, here are two ideas:

If ogres are on patrol, they make a sound each time they hit a path_corner. One thing you could do is make it impossible for the ogres to actually reach their first path_corner, by blocking it off with a func_wall. Once the secret area is revealed, you can delete the func_wall and the ogres' patrolling will resume.

The second idea is to change the classname of the ogres to monster_ogre_marksman. There are a few subtle (and almost surely unintentional) changes to behaviour in an ogre when you give it this classname. One of the side effects is that it doesn't make sounds when it hits a path corner, so that might sort things in a single simple change.

While typing this up, I thought up a variation of the second method, which might generalise to other monsters in an interesting way. Time for a new map hack article... 

Hmm.. I tried that "monster_ogre_marksman", but it makes sounds as well. Maybe I will try out that func_wall and I remove them when player enters that area. 

They do make the grumbling sounds still, it only spares you the chainsaw dragging sound. I guess that teleporting them into the room once it's revealed isn't an option owing to the one-time noise? What about pseudo-teleporting them with rapidly moving platforms that drop them into place from a long distance away. That could be disguised I expect... 

Over the years the sign on buffer limit has been vexing mappers. There has been many good posts from aguirRe and Preach talking about ways to reduce the buffer and what it does. I know the limit has changed over the years with engines increasing the size from 8K to the latest (QS) 64k. I do realize that it cannot increase anymore without a different (999) protocol change and 64K is really the limit of protocol 666.

My latest map is hitting the 64K limit and I know there is plenty of ways I can reduce this with delay spawning entities. My question is there any advantage to really reducing the sign on buffer size down to a reasonable size? Once I have got it below the 64K limit is there any bad impact on the engine for loading a large sign on buffer maps?

One of the previous posts about the sign on buffer say that a quick/save after delay spawning will increase the sign on buffer. From my tests the sign on buffer seems to remain the same regardless of how much has spawned after the map was first loaded. The quick save/load does not increase the sign on buffer and I am wondering why not? In theory the save file should contain a lot more active entities since the map first started, yet the sign on buffer is the same! 

I tried to testcompile an early stage of my first map.
I set up Necros compiling GUI 'correct'. I'm using eric w's tyrutils. But I get a qbsp error: MSVCR120.dll is apparently missing. 

There is a microsoft runtime my compilers need. DL link is under the download buttons at https://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/ 

FTE+QSS split up the signon stuff, so unless a mod actually uses MSG_INIT then there is no limit - even with protocol 15 (although other limits like max static ents come in to play).
The singular exception to this is the svc_serverdata packet, which can still exceed 8kb whenever a mod/map precaches too many models or sounds (including filename lengths).
(its possible that this will break clients with proquake's mid-map demo recording code, but qss won't have a problem).

NQ's reliables are flushed in 1024 (or more if no longer vanilla) chunks.
If you try sending more than 8k to a vanilla client like proquake then you can crash that client... or server... other than that it doesn't really matter, it'll just take a little longer for the data to arrive over a network.
If its the local client then the networking code will just copy it all over in one chunk, so as long as an engine supports 64k there is absolutely no harm in 60k signon buffers in single-player.

However, protocol 999 with its bigger coords and angles will double the size of significant chunks of data. dpp7 will have the same sort of issue. Thus be sure to test with these, and try to leave a few kb slop for future bloat.
Or just simply tell everyone to use QSS/FTE and stop worrying about it. :s 

Thanks for the explanation on the sign on buffer. I know FTE+QSS works really well and the rain looks especially awesome! My concern is QS/DP because they don't have good solution to break up client/server packets. I know this map will never work with NQ or any MP focused engine and I am fine with that.

I am curious to know, why does the sign on buffer not change when loading a save game? Surely this is the same type of event when starting a map a fresh for the first time? 

I had assumed that installing Visual Studio 2015 for TrenchBroom (cause imma newb) would make Visual Studio 2013 unnecessary. I will see tomorrow if installing 2013 fixes the issue.
Thanks for pointing at the obvious!
I never look at that :D 

the signon buffer consists of 3 parts...
the first part is all the data generated by makestatic, ambientsound, or MSG_INIT.
the second part is the baselines, generated from the entities that have a model set after the second tick.
the third part is anything like the first part that was added after the server was spawned, and won't actually be sent to any client that was already connected when it was added - hopefully your mod won't be generating any of that...

loading a saved game works by loading up the map as normal then wiping out all the entities and replacing with the ents loaded from the saved game (hence precache mismatches being a thing).
thus the first part contains all the same stuff generated by the qc (assuming you didn't set deathmatch 1 just before loading...). the second part is also generated from the entities in the initial map spawn rather than the ones after that (which is kinda lame, but hey, at least the max size is known).
the third part is... well, its your fault if its there. it'll of course be missing in a loaded game, as will anything else you wrote to any network messages...

but yeah, the signon buffer is just a blob of network messages that get sent when clients connect.
My code avoids using it primarily so that clients can be sent data based upon the protocol extensions that said client supports (instead of requiring all to use the same), so its all generated on the fly, with a little extra code to avoid overflowing reliable buffers. Other engines could easily just implement multiple signon buffers and just switch over to the next when the prior one gets a little full.
You need this sort of stuff if you're going to have 32k+ ents... 

the signon buffer consists of 3 parts...
the first part is all the data generated by makestatic, ambientsound, or MSG_INIT
AD does not have much static stuff, but I have plenty of ambientsounds entities all over the map.

the second part is the baselines, generated from the entities that have a model set after the second tick
This is the stuff I have been converting to delay spawns via triggers

the third part is anything like the first part that was added after the server was spawned, and won't actually be sent to any client that was already connected when it was added - hopefully your mod won't be generating any of that
Is this third part all the delay spawned stuff after the map is loaded? Won't this all be added to the sign on buffer for a loadgame?

My question is, If I delay spawn a bunch of entities after the map has started, will they impact the sign on buffer for a savegame? If a map reaches the 64K sign on buffer limit, does delay spawning solve the problem or does it comes back later with savegame sign on buffer? 

that third part is basically sent to /dev/null in singleplayer or saved games.
this is a problem if you're delaying the makestatic or ambientsound calls.

for regular entities, delaying its spawn means that you'll have no baseline generated for that entity. this will result in less data being sent in the signon buffer, but you'll be increasing the data sent every single packet while that entity is visible.

by all means use movetype=movetype_none and nextthink=0 until the player gets close as a way to reduce cpu time spent in the server, but if you're just doing it to reduce the signon buffer sizes then I'd urge you to do that ONLY while your target engine's signon sizes are too low.
that said, if your engine has proper deltas (qw, fte, or dpp5+ protocols), then baselines don't really matter too much anyway. 

does delay spawning solve the problem or does it comes back later with savegame sign on buffer?

I think it solves the problem.. as Spike said, when you load a savegame, the signon buffer is based on loading the map from the beginning. It doesn't look like anything from the save game can get added to the signon buffer.

I also did a quick test to confirm this in ad_swampy, signon buffer on a fresh start is around 20K bytes, and loading a save from around 1/3 through the map has a signon buffer of 19880 bytes. 

Spike, could you theoretically use the save game detection trick to restore those makestatic/ambientsound calls in the third part of the sign-on? Replay all of those calls back to the player on the frame that they load the save? Of course, you'd need some way to store in the save game which calls need to be made again, by e.g. keeping an entity around with the details of the makestatic call. 

when you load a savegame, the signon buffer is based on loading the map from the beginning
All my tests point to the same conclusions as Eric, if I delay spawn models they are excluded from the signon buffer (start and savegame)

for regular entities, delaying its spawn means that you'll have no baseline generated for that entity. this will result in less data being sent in the signon buffer, but you'll be increasing the data sent every single packet while that entity is visible
I assumed there must of been a downside to reducing entities appearing in the sign on buffer and it seems this is it. So the client will send info on all delay spawn entities when they are within the portal space of the player? I assume once the player moves on to another area (with proper portal setup) then they are no longer sent? I imagine this extra frame traffic could be bad for MP but fine for SP? 

@sock
SV_CreateBaseline is called from SV_SpawnServer, this is the same function responsible for 'map' etc.
loading a saved game basically does 'map foo; deleteent ALL; loadentsfromfile'.
so yes, same as ericw - the signon buffer should normally be consistent over reloading games. The only exception to that is if some cvar screwed up your saved game, causing that initial state to get loaded differently (which may also affect model precaches, messing those up).

delaying an entity from getting its model will prevent the server from generating a baseline for that entity. nothing will be added to the signon buffer in this case, and both client+server will use some fallback baseline (all those fields set to 0).
NQ's networking sends a delta from the baseline in every single packet for every entity which is visible to the player entity, so if nothing else, you're adding modelindex and origin_z values to every packet for every visible entity (the other stuff is much more likely to change from the baselines during the course of the game anyway, or remain 0 like colormap, skin, or angles_x+z).

so yes, forcing the prevention of baselines isn't catastophic (and I'd say engines should do it automatically if they've no other way to avoid signons overflowing), but its certainly not ideal.

if you've a thousand monsters, you could try setting their baselines with frame 0 and angle_y 0, and reverting back to their proper values after. this will save a couple of bytes per monster with little real loss once they're angry at you. maybe also origin_x+y for 4/8 bytes per (especially if they're patrolling).

@Preach
you don't want to actually be just calling makestatic or ambientsound once the game has started, as noone on the server at the time will see them. you would need to use writebytes with MSG_ALL or something, THEN you could call the builtin. And yes, if you wanted to restore them after a saved game you'd need to detect that and resend.
Hence why mods don't normally use makestatic for corpses etc...
(side note: makestatic doubles up as a remove(), and writebytes are still as evil as they've always been especially when you have 16bit modelindexes and protocols that incompatibly change the svcs in question) 

Hello!
I got trouble! Situation is:
Single map, originally gl quake (not any mode).
I think i put too many entities on map. Because when i deleting 1 the last i putted entity (item_health) - map is working. Error appearing when i try to load map.
Is the decision of this error whithout reducing entity counts?
Im not finished puting monster, items on the map and want to putting items till the finish the map. 

Use a better engine.
Or read the above conversation about signon buffers (aka: use a better engine). 

Hey, I love J.A.C.K. and have been getting back into mapping for Q2 as a result! So, thanks for that!

Unfortunately, I've encountered a problem with texture display in the 3d-view. I've posted details HERE: http://leray.proboards.com/thread/3857/jack-3d-view-textures?page=1&scrollTo=28859 including a screenshot and logs and so on.

Any Ideas? 

Have you tried pressing TAB key few times to see if you have set proper 3D mode in a viewport? 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of the TAB shortcut key; I'd previously been through those different modes via the view menu.
Changing modes just cycles through wireframe, filled (colored) polygons, whited-out entirely and then a greyscale looking version of filled polygons (as in the screenshot I posted) 

Hmmm...
I have 2 ideas you can try:
1) Go to Tools -> Options... -> "Game Profiles" tab.
There you'll find "Texture Format" dropdown. Switch it to "All" and reimport packs if needed.

2) Maybe something is blocking access to textures?
Quit all texture/wad/wal editors and run J.A.C.K. as an administrator.

Btw. can you see textures in a Texture Browser? 

Spike, tnx!
I setup client quakespasm and quake1 map loading very good! 

I know 666 is kind of the standard, but what other protocols have been used/are used? Is 666 specific to FitzQuake/QuakeSpasm? Do they just increase entity/bmodel/brush limits?/ 

The protocol was first released in Fitzquake 0.85 (2009 iirc).

There's some info here:
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Network_Protocols
https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Fitzquake_Protocol

Do they just increase entity/bmodel/brush limits?
Pretty much, except not brush limits; the network protocols don't care how much geometric detail is in the map.
There are also some rendering things in 666 / other extended protocols, for example supporting the "alpha" key on bmodels (for making transparent glass) needs protocol support. 

i want a trigger_once (to1) (or a info_notnull hack with similar functionality) that kill a func_wall.

but only after an event (triggered by another trigger_once to2). so the player triggers to2 and to1 becomes active.
if the player hasn't triggered to2, to1 shouldn't be triggered. it should be inactive even if the player touch the trigger brush.

so:
player touches to1. nothing happens, to1 exists. func_wall exists

then player touches to2. to2 is triggered.

A) now, if the player don't touch to1, the func_wall keep existing, to1 isn't triggered

B) now, if the player touches to1, it's triggered and the func_wall is killed.

i need these two functionalities

an conditional, in other words

in hideous pseudocode:

if ( player.touch(to1) )
__if ( to2.istriggered() )
____kill func_wall
__else
____//do nothing
____//to1 keeps existing and isn't triggered
--endif
endif 

ok, i figured it out with post #3923 in this thread

the browser search function becomes a little slow with the +18000 messages in this thread 

Hi, I'm having a go at mapping with Trenchbroom, I seem to have mostly gotten the hang of brushes, lighting and entities but I'm not sure how to set the music and the skybox. Apparently the "sounds" field of the worldspawn entity lets you set the music, however setting this to track04 or any other track doesn't result in music playing when I run the map. 

Remove the word "track" and possibly the "0"

try

"sounds" "4" 

I believe that functionality was not in base Quake, skybox textures were set by actually texturing your skybox with them. Newer engines and FGD's allow you to input a skybox texture name in the worldspawn and it will load up in game as long as the skybox textures are stored id1 (or whatever the mod folder is)/gfx/env and one of the base skybox textures is used in-editor to define the sky. 

Alright I managed to get music working using Mukor's suggestion, however I'm still having issues with the skybox, I noticed this: https://s23.postimg.org/mbvhz0kyz/sky1.png when I opened the map.

How do you suggest I go about setting the skybox? Having to place the sky textures in that directory is a bit of an annoyance, and with this setup I'd assume anyone I shared the map with would have to do the same thing. I also tried leaving the sky field blank, as when I run the main game inputting "sky" returns: sky "", but this was also unsuccessful. 

Do you have a sky named "sky1_XX" in the folder?

you need to do it as follows:

"sky" "sky1_" 

Check that the .tga files are in, e.g:

quake directory/id1/gfx/env/sky1_XX.tga

The "sky" command in the engine console lets you load a specific sky, overriding what is in worldspawn, so you could enter: "sky sky1_" for testing. 

I think there's a bit of confusion, I'm not wanting to use a custom sky, just the standard purple, cloudy quake sky, is there any way to use the default sky without having to have these files in gfx/env?

Additionally, I loaded some sky files from Arcane Dimensions into the folder - rather than faffing about converting files - and attempted to load the skybox but I seem to be stuck with a blank grey sky, there was no output on the console. Do I need to run vis in order for the skybox to appear? 

Argh, alright, I had to surround the map with a big box for the skybox to be drawn on, that's that fixed, thanks for the help. 

Sky (or a custom skybox) will be drawn on every proper sky-textured brush. No need to box a map, just put sky brushes on the ceilings/outer walls where you want it to be. 

So I've finally plugged all the leaks in my map, but now I get this error when I go to compile:

http://imgur.com/r9kAtW7

What is a degenerate edge and how do I prevent it? 

"Argh, alright, I had to surround the map with a big box for the skybox to be drawn on, that's that fixed, thanks for the help."

The map was not sealed. If you look at the output from QBSP or check its log file, you will see it say LEAKED at some point. Although "boxing" the map will work to fix this, it's usually not the best way. 

 

"Pointfile Is Your Friend..."

In this case though, it wasn't a problem of finding a small leak. It appears to me that the basic concept of a "sealed" map had not yet been understood. 

... he basic concept of a "sealed" map had not yet been understood...

wow... so the advice to read aguirRe's Holy Mapping Bible is more than relevant in this case:

http://web.comhem.se/bjp/tooltips.txt

repent sinner... repent ! 

Is there any significant downside to creating a box around the map to simplify sealing? Only thing I can think of is that when you run vis, external surfaces that would never be seen will end up as being considered potentially visible which could hamper performance on larger maps compared to properly sealing everything off (just guessing here based on a loose idea of how vis works).

I'll have a look at the mapping bible, thanks! 

That's basically it. People still like to play quake on their potato computers, so lazy vising like that or no vising at all will make them grumpy. It's best practice to properly seal maps. 

Last thing I can think of at the moment, but what's a good way to make rock walls look good? Creating a wall out of small blocks and mangling them with the vertex editor works reasonably well but it's kinda labor intensive and its easy to overdo it. 

Perhaps try making one large wall, then cutting it into 8 or so pieces (using the clip tool and keeping both sides after the cut), then selecting all the pieces at once and using the vertex mode to drag some of the vertexes where the pieces join. That way they naturally conform to the shape of each other and hopefully its a quicker way to get natural looking rock. The more you cut up the wall, the finer the detail you will get. 

I think I found a good method, make a kind of "palette wall" that I work on to ensure it looks good, then duplicate chunks of it to make other walls. The first result was too angular but a repeat with smaller brushes should turn out well. 

I use hexenmapper's method and I'm quite proud of the rockwork I can build. I usually use either 16x16 or 32x32 (i think - going off memory here) brushes. It does take a loooong time but in my mind the results are well worth it. It would definitely be quicker if you used larger brushes, which would be fine depending on your aesthetic. 

Got a pretty decent looking wall this way: https://s31.postimg.org/wv6wbz3d7/spasm0000.png 

looks decent, but take care with light.

The dark blends show the lightfall is crossed creating the dark blur.
Changing the light to one "light40 wait 0.04" and another "light 200" could result in a more blended effect. 

Kim if youre using:

http://ericwa.github.io/tyrutils-ericw/

...turn that wall into a "func_group" and add "_phong" as a key with a value of 1.

This will smooth out the lightmaps on that specific wall. 

http://simonoc.com/pages/articles/rockwall1_1.htm

Looks like a good start, I'd try to stick with quads rather than triangles and maybe make the scale a bit bigger 

Hey everyone, I'm doing some BSP2 mapping for hexen 2 and I ran into a little snag that's driving me crazy.

I have a fairly decent sized level, and the amount of detail requires I use bsp2, but I'm getting "reached occupant at <coords>" whenever I try to add this new area

http://i.imgur.com/FPsiXoR.jpg

There's nothing different about it construction wise, it's not off grid, it's connected to this main area here:

http://i.imgur.com/rd3OGON.jpg

The cliff wall on the left, I cut the brush in two and started making a hallway.

Now it throws reached occupant and points to an entity on the other side of the level, and loading the pointfile it does not draw a line to any hole.

At first i thought i was just missing the hole, but if i move the new room away from there and section it off and put the wall back together, it compiles fine!

I tried making a smaller cave-type entrance in the same spot with there being more wall, and that compiles fine too!

It's literally if i just connect the path using the same sky, and I'm really confused as to why this is happening 

 

...by making this cliff face on the other side of the map a func_wall

http://i.imgur.com/a2UU7WL.jpg

???

Could it be the way the brush was constructed and the verts were positioned were causing qbsp to shit itself? Early today I got a couple QBSP crashes too randomly until i restored a backup 

QBSP shitting itself would not be a big surprise. I've had brushes that should be fine cause issues before, although that's often because I got too ambitious with stretching them out to thin points and other bad ideas... 

TB's Vertex editing makes it easy to create invalid brushes. Might be a very short edge or just too many faces. Make sure to check the issue list, too. 

What's a better way to construct an irregular outdoor area? Starting as a box room and adding in rock brushes and func_details over it to produce the illusion of a round area? Or cutting up your brushes that are touching the void and modifying their shape directly?

Or is it down to preference? I've been doing it both ways but I'm not sure which is better 

Func_detail shouldnt touch void. Throw a brush behind any that do. 

My Method is to start by grouping each brush to keep things workable and then cut them in half longways (http://i.imgur.com/iqJiGyt.png), make one side into a func_detail and then cut like so: http://i.imgur.com/CyZOHmx.png

and then etc. etc. for your detailing. I make sure my floor/ceiling brushes extend out to meet the outer walls.

It takes a bit of practice to make stuff look good but effects like phong with the lighting go a long way to a good looking finished product. 

Trying to compile a test map in Jackhammer, getting the following error:

************ ERROR ************
Error opening C:\Quake\Id1\cb_deco.wad;C:\Quake\Id1\cb_obj.wad: Invalid argument

Bullshit, invalid -- the files are in the directory. There was something you had to do to link the .wads to a map back in the Radiant days, wondering if it's needed still? 

Try "wad" "\quake\id1\cb_deco.wad;..." maybe. 

Well, that information's already in the mapfile:

{
"classname" "worldspawn"
"sounds" "1"
"worldtype" "0"
"mapversion" "220"
"wad" "C:\Quake\Id1\cb_deco.wad;C:\Quake\Id1\cb_obj.wad"
"_generator" "J.A.C.K. 1.1.1064 (vpQuake)"
{ 

Reinstalling TyrUtils (which I thought I was using anyways) apparently solved the problem. Sigh. 

Getting an issue with qbsp:
************ ERROR ************
Degenerate edge at (0.000 0.000 0.000)

However even after seeing nothing suspicious - and moving everything in the area to be sure - it persisted. Some searching revealed it's apparently an issue with the editor accidentally creating a brush with a size of 0 in all dimensions, and that most editors should have built in tools to remove it. How do I go about doing this in Trenchbroom? 

Huh, nevermind, the issue is gone after I removed my rock wall to have a crack at making one following the guide ericw posted. 

Huh, nevermind, the issue is gone after I removed my rock wall to have a crack at making one following the guide ericw posted. 

In Quake 1, is it possible to have a func_train damage and kill players when it touches them, without having to push them into a wall for the damage to actually be applied? It seems like it will only kill the player when they've been pushed into another surface. 

I'm not really able to test it, but it could be as simple as adding
"touch" "train_blocked"
as a key to the train. 

There's a hack that *kind of* does that, but it's not entirely reliable.
If you add "touch" "hurt_touch" and a sufficiently high "dmg" value to the func_train, it'll kill the player when he actively touches it. Actively means the player needs to move towards the train in order for the damage to be applied; just standing still will make the train push the player as usual.
Preach probably knows a way to do it more reliably. Depends on what the whole thing is for really, and if there isn't another approach. 

@czg

Thanks! That did exactly what I wanted it to do. I didn't know I could just add that keyvalue to the entity. 

I made these out of brushes + _phong for a swamp and I was quite happy with the result

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksL2sIViaFs

They are quite detailed and I made sure to fix any non-integer verts that popped up, but how feasible is this for BSP2? Would I be able to fill up a decent sized level with these? 

At this point you may prefer a .map to .mdl converter. 

I had made a large group of trees as one func breakable with negative health so they would be like a group of trees with accurate collision. Is having them as ents that way still a problem?

I could convert them to mdl no problem and use skip for collision, it just helped me save on temp ent limit problems that would be caused by too many tree entities in one visleaf 

Coming Back To Q1 Mapping [EDIT]
Posted by demorlo [73.138.207.223] on 2017/03/03 16:37:16
I've started to map again and i'm trying to known the current toolset for Q1. I've chosen QuakeSpasm as my engine, since it runs pretty well on Linux. And TrenchBroom seems to be the standard now. However:

- What are the current options for building BSP's?
- What is being used for textures? 

Documentation On Parsing MAP Format [EDIT]
Posted by demorlo [73.138.207.223] on 2017/03/03 16:39:26
I've been able to find lot's and lot's of detailed information on the BSP format and how to render it, but the MAP is another story. Does anyone have any good links on the details of the format? Not only Q1, but the differences between Q1, Q2 and Q3 as well. 

Ok so I pretty much have the same question I had last time... but this time with doors. Can I make it so that touching a func_door kills the player? 

You can use a thin trigger_hurt brush assigned with enough damage to kill the player, placed right in front of the door.

Then if you had a button(or another entity/trigger/action)to open the door you would also add a "killtarget" targeting the trigger_hurt brush.

Here's the setup...

door:
targetname = dr1
spawnflag set to "toggle"

trigger_hurt:
targetname = kill_payer_now
Damage(dmg) = 1000

button:
target = dr1
killtarget = kill_player_now

In JACK adding a killtarget to a button is done using "smart edit" and adding a new key/value pair. I don't know about TB and other editors.

You of course can adjust this to suit your needs.

hth's,
- damage_ 

You mean, a door that crushes the player while closing? It's the property "dmg". Give it a high value like 1000. 

I should have clarified. In my original post about the func_train issue, I wanted the player to be killed by merely touching the train, not the force of the train pushing you into the wall. This was made possibly by using "touch" "train_blocked" as a keyvalue.

I'm trying to replicate that effect but this time with a door. Essentially, I want to create a large spike ( using a func_door ) that acts as a trap that kills the player as if by impalement, instead of being " crushed " aka pushed into a wall by the spike. So the problem is that, even though I'm giving it a high damage value, it isn't doing anything to the player without having another surface nearby to press them into.

If that isn't possible, I could try to redesign the whole thing by using a func_train instead of a func_door I suppose. 

I'm not sure if func_door overwrites the touch function in its setup. I know it does if you give it a message, but it might not if you leave it blank? If it does, you should be able to use the same trick as for the train. 

From https://quakewiki.org/wiki/doors.qc
self.touch = door_touch;
It always overrides the touch function, so you can't use that trick.

I guess you could maybe do the whole thing as an info_notnull and add all the door functionality manually? It's not doing anything crazy on setup, you just have to explicitly set its movement and give it sounds and stuff.

Posting on mobile so I can't verify anything... 

Or simply a clip brush above the spike? 

Then just make your spike inside a trigger_hurt. 

 

Here's how to do it:

https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2017/03/05/masquerading-as-a-door/

Here's a test map that demonstrates it:

http://www.quaketastic.com/files/single_player/maps/mask.zip

Obviously this is a bit more complicated than just adding one key to an entity, but I can't see a simpler way. Let me know if it misbehaves. 

Obviously way over the top for something as simple as a spike trap, but I'm curious as to which other application this may have. 

@Preach Thanks for the help - unfortunately this solution looks a bit over my head, and I'm not sure how I would go about applying it to the way I have my trap set up. I've never messed with these types of entities before. As far as my problem goes, I might just look into other ways to set up the trap itself, as in the positioning of it, not the entity functions. I appreciate you going out of your way to help though! 

Hey, if someone knows more about quake textures, I have question for you.

Is there similar textures like wizard wood, something that would go to trees and roots? 

Is there a pre-made texture wad featuring all the textures from Quake, Rogue and Hipnotic? I had been using one called q.wad that claimed to be, but I got around to finishing Rogue and realised there were many textures there that weren't in the .wad. 

Hipnotic WAD
Rogue WAD 

I've updated my FGD file for version v0.15.9 of Ericw tools so you can now set phong on brush models and projected textures on lights.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33279452/quake4ericwTools.fgd

Tested with J.A.C.K steam release 

Too many vertices (65579 > 65535). Recompile with the "-bsp2" flag to lift this restriction.

is this bad? is compiling in bsp2 a bad thing? 

Is your map sealed? If not, then seal your map and the problem will go away.

If your map is sealed, then it usually means your map is bum-splashingly large. This is not generally a problem now, and bsp2 is not bad, but it means people can only play it in bsp2-supporting engines. Is that an issue today? I doubt it. If something thinks it is, I'd like to hear reasons. 

If something thinks it is

If *someone* thinks it is 

Thanks for clearing that for me! 

Are there any basic map scripting guides? I'm wanting to make a brush (or rather a group of brushes) move 64 units while rotating so that it appears to be rolling out of the way. Attempting to search for this turns up a lot of unrelated results, or stuff to do with HUD scripting for Quakeworld. 

Rotating brushes are not a feature of vanilla Quake. You'd need to use the mission pack Scourge of Armagon or another mod that has the same feature.

Hipnotic quake-c (original release 3.12.97) - with compiler warnings fixed. A great mod code base if you want: rotating brushes / doors, water swell, rubble, clocks, earthquakes, etc. Featured in "Scourge of Armagon" - Mission Pack 1. NOTE: any code that requires models / sounds must be modified or you must acquire the mission pack.

http://www.moddb.com/groups/qc/downloads/hipnotic-quake-c-release 

Ah, in that case I might just move the brush rather than delving into this for my first map, it's only for a secret, so digging into this to add a little bit of detail rather than focusing on the map itself is missing the forest for the trees. Although I'll certainly have a look once I become more adept at making maps.

If I shift into stuff more pertinent to actual design, the best kind of secret seems to be one where the player notices a potential rocket/nade/slope jump, tries it and is rewarded both for being observant and having the ability to make the jump. But when that isn't on the table, is it best to make the reward for finding a secret visible to make them start hunting for it? Originally I had the key hidden behind an octagonal panel, and the key could be seen around the edges, but I'm unsure whether it's better to directly signpost secrets like this or just to create interesting areas in the map that prompt investigation, that then leads to finding a secret. It probably doesn't matter as much for little ammo caches and the like, but for something like a key that will unlock a sizeable secret or the only LG/RL available in the map I'm not too sure which approach is best. 

1. I once had documentation on the amount of map unit the player can traverse per second, when he jumps, how he climbs stairs, anybody still has it?

2. Can sky brushes be turned into func_doors, especially func_door_secret? 

I'm assuming you're wanting to hide a secret in the sky rather than actually move the sky brushes that seal the map. You should be able to make a "fake" sky brush that has a space behind it in order to hide something, as you can see in the linked image any brush that isn't actually part of the skybox but has been given a sky texture will just blend into the skybox (here I removed the bounding skybox so it's visible): https://s30.postimg.org/5cjbru1q9/spasm0000.png

If you're actually wanting to move the skybox that seals the map I'm fairly sure that's impossible because a door is considered a brush entity, and in order for the map to be built no entity can trace a line into the void. 

the best kind of secret seems to be one where the player notices a potential rocket/nade/slope jump, tries it and is rewarded both for being observant and having the ability to make the jump.

Err, I would disagree completely. Very few maps hide their secrets in areas accessible only via rocket/grenade-jump, and I would say a secret should be accessible in some other way. Rocket jumping and especially grenade jumping are advanced player skills that are used for speedrunning and sequence breaking. They shouldn't be required by any area of your map, including secrets, for at least two reasons:

1) If your map requires specialised/advanced movement skills, you're excluding a large number of players.

2) Because rocket/grenade-jumping are tricks used in sequence-breaking, there is the implicit assumption that the designer would not require them. Hence even players who are able to do these jumps would often refrain from using them when playing through a map, in order to experience the map as intended by the mapper. So someone might spend a lot of time looking for the "correct" way of accessing a secret, despite being able to rocket-jump to it. So if your secrets require rocket/grenade-jumps, you're bound to frustrate/annoy certain players.

The same would mostly apply to slope-jumping, but it's a slighly different animal. On one hand, many players may not even know that slope-jumping is a thing in Quake -- so it's even more "advanced" in a sense -- but on the other hand, it does not damage the player, so it carries less risk than rocket jumping. It is something that may in theory even happen by accident. So you could, if you design your map well, get players to slope-jump even if they never knew if was possible. There are a few maps that do exactly that -- but you really need to know what you're doing as a mapper. I would say that if you're still figuring out good map/gameplay design, refrain from requiring any trick jumps in Q1SP. 

This is what I've been doing, I'm glad you confirmed me what I'm intending to do works. Thanks! 

is it best to make the reward for finding a secret visible to make them start hunting for it? Originally I had the key hidden behind an octagonal panel, and the key could be seen around the edges, but I'm unsure whether it's better to directly signpost secrets like this or just to create interesting areas in the map that prompt investigation, that then leads to finding a secret.

In my conceited opinion, little glimpses of items that are not directly accessible but tease the player are cool, so if you can easily do that in your map, I'd say go for it. It's not crucial, though, so if it would e.g. ruin the aesthetic of the area, there's no need to force it.

The important thing for me as a player, whether or not the secret is "signposted" by a visible item, is that the solution to the secret should make sense, and not be completely random (e.g. a secret door or func_illusionary that is in no way visually differentiated from its surroundings).

interesting areas in the map that prompt investigation, that then leads to finding a secret --> you can't go wrong with this, I think (with or without a teasing item). I personally love these kinds of secrets and am always a little disappointed when I explore around and am not rewarded. I know that some mappers will look at how their beta testers play through their map and which nooks and crannies they tend to discover while exploring the map, and then add secrets there. 

Yeah, I just want to agree wholeheartedly with total_newbie, because this is also a pet peeve of mine.

The overwhelming problem with trick jumps - as total_newbie says - is that more often than not, you can use them to utterly break a map, because map designers typically do not do extensive QA to determine all the ways that rocket/slope/grenade jumps can break the design, so players should assume that if they are trickjumping around, they may be breaking everything anyway, and any hidden areas found may not actually have been intended to be found that way by the designer.

On the other hand, there may be a case for doing it if the mapper specifically states that trickjumping is a valid way to play the map, but you'd have to communicate that to the player clearly somehow, and it will still probably annoy people who aren't the l33t speedrunner type. 

It is good to experiment though, something not so relevant might become relevant if it is expressed in a right way.. maybe making circular shaped pillar "J" and on top of it secret weapon or something. But remember make it possible, that player can jump on top of it without using slope jump skill, but that would be the first possible "easy slope secret" if you're making more maps that would extend that idea further.

I think some player's might try to run against that J-shaped pillar and press jump accidentally at the right moment and angle, and then possible learn that nice trick first time. Make the pillar small that it looks like player could barely jump on top of it, that might strive players most likely jump against it and try running. 

 

Isn't slope jumping in id1, in e4m1? That makes it seem pretty legit. 

I used sky textured doors (or maybe func_walls) to hide monsters up in the sky in Castle of Oblivion. I remember testing it in an early version of Fitzquake and the sky textures didn't animate, but that was fixed in later versions. 

Isn't slope jumping in id1, in e4m1?

I think you're right.

To be honest, I still think requiring trick jumping for secrets is a bad idea, but an even worse idea is me being all preachy about it, so I'm gonna change my advice to "just do whatever you think is cool". 

I absolutely disagree that building maps to facilitate or encourage rocket jumping should be off-limits. In fact it's a pet peeve of *mine* that while rocket jumping is such a well-known, recognized mechanic, there are only a handful of single-player maps that are built with it in mind. Not that I think every map should require it, but just that considering how many maps are out there I think I could use more like digs07.

I agree with Kinn that it would be a good idea to explain in the readme that your map requires rocket jumping, or state that there's a "super secret" that requires a rocket jump to access. It's really unfortunate that, as Kinn states, most mappers seem not to care about this extremely cool mechanic, and it has resulted in players assuming it's only a way to "break" the map.

I do enjoy "breaking" maps with rocket jumps if I see an opportunity, in all honesty, but there is so much potential to make really cool levels built with the skill in mind. Might make a few quick proof-of-concept maps after I finish my QUMP entry. 

The moment you begin building a map where rocket jumping is an intentional means of progression, players will start using rocket jumping as if it was an "allowed" mechanic in maps where it wasn't.

"I can't find any way to get up, guess I need to rocket jump! *breaks progression and gets annoyed at "the map being unfair* "

This isn't me theoretizing either, it's already happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCtyDycIOI&t=36m27s 

I don't think anything in a single player map should require a rocket jump.

I generally build things in a way that it will be obvious to the player when they are not supposed to be able to get somewhere. If they want to ignore that, it's not a problem. No clip is easier though. 

Then I'll be sure to put a message in the readme after where I explain the map requires rocket jumping saying "don't do this on any other map, you filthy cheater," etc. 

Otp, though in that map it wasn't either required, wind pad just wasn't as obvious to the player as it should have been. 

Doesn't matter.

"The way forward is unclear, maybe I need to rocket jump" is not a behavior that should be encouraged. 

I think you can have a puzzle that requires a specific maneuver if you tell the player. It may not work for everyone but a shootable hint along the lines of "The Well of Wishes Awaits in the Crypt of Decay" would be fine by me. And a good example of giving the player positive feedback for figuring a little secret or out. Use the stretched faces behind a blocked off area just as in the id1 Start level

Here are some suggestions:

"A fire at your feet will show you the way."

"A quick blast will lift your spirits."

"Hey dipshit rocket jump up there." 

Just put down some scorch-marks. Sure, quake doesn't have them normally, but when people see a burned texture on the floor, it might give them a hint that "hey, i'm supposed to try something here!"

Worrying about whether or not this sort of thing is a bad thing to teach players is a losing battle. Most people already know about rocket jumping, and although some choose not to use it, there really isn't anything you can do to stop people who want to. People will break your map when they play it if they can, and there really isn't anything you can do about it, except for building it better so that they don't feel the need to. 

Seriously, insisting that incorporating one of the coolest, most iconic unintentional mechanics in a game is off-limits to people making maps for this game *as a hobby* because it *encourages bad behavior* in the playerbase is pretty silly. Like Pritchard said above, its pretty widely known about, and I would add not even hard to learn, pretending it doesn't exist is silly especially given the rich opportunities to make cool shut that exist.

This is way off topic though. 

I tried looking at some source files from maps, but i cant figure it out. Someone please walk me thru the process.

I want to set a skill select area in my map without changing the map. 

As far as I know you have to change or restart the level after the difficulty has been set, because what difficulty it is on (0,1,2,3*) can change which monsters are spawned or not.

*3 is nightmare and normally doesn't change anything from hard but I think there are some hacks to make it behave differently to hard as well... 

Have you considered mapping for something like Q3 or Warsow ****as a hobby****? 

http://i.imgur.com/pEt9VvO.png 

I can't find an exact link for a tutorial for this but I know it involves using runes and an info_player_start2

Take a look at the source for sock's Fallen From Grace:

http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/sp/fallen.htm

I have not tried this but it's probably fairly simple. 

The issue has been resolved. thanks. 

I justed wanted to fart in here and say that Discord is *amazing* for working on maps with a small team. You can drag and drop pics, demos, map files, wads etc into the chat window and it'll upload them for everyone else with no fuss etc. You can pin useful messages and files for everyone to see. It even has full voice chat if you want to use that. And all from a web interface! (Or an app)

I've been digging it. 

i think we should migrate from irc to discord at some point ;) 

I made a start on it https://discord.gg/NJ8sKQf

I don't expect it to take over irc, but we can give it a shot perhaps 

I've been trying to figure out how to set a new line of text in a message lately but can't seem to get it to work. It appears that in id's maps they use a backslash followed by the letter n to do just this, but whenever I try it it doesn't work, and it just shows the command being written in the message in game. What gives? 

you're using TrenchBroom 2 RC3 right?

It's a bug in TrenchBroom. Not much you can do at the moment because they get converted to \\n whenever you save, though I guess you can open the .map in a text editor and find/replace \\n with \n before compiling. 

Yup, TB2 RC3. I didn't know it was a bug, thanks for shedding some light on this issue though. I'll try what you suggested. 

Anyone know of a good 'pile-of-skulls/bones' texture? 

skulls2 from februus 

Maybe also floorskull1 as used in ad_necrokeep (don't know where it's from originally). 

Here's something that wakes up a grunt, e1m3-style.

Quaketastic download: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/misc/hcmnstrtest.zip 

However, you can't play the level until info_player_start is in it. 

Alternatively, you could try this.

Quaketastic download: http://www.quaketastic.com/files/misc/hcmnstrtestips.zip 

...You get the "no info_player_start" nonetheless until it's fixed. 

I'm guilty of commenting too many times in any single thread within the span of 1 hour, but thankfully hcmnstertestips is fixed. 

Is there any way to deal with the double line of mortar that occurs if you use brick textures on large walls due to the edges of each 64*64 texture meeting? The only thing that comes to mind is clipping one row of pixels from the texture but I was hoping there was an option in-editor for this at seems like it would be a common problem 

Absolutely not. Quake's wad texture art cannot be procedurally modified like that, either in editor, at compile, or in-game. You'll simply have to make a new texture that just has a 1 pixel mortar line. 

What's the problem it's causing? 

most decent brick textures should tile properly without a double-thick mortar line. 

I assumed you are talking about quake's stock textures. If you're just using a poorly tiled custom texture then I can see how that would be pants. 

@Kinn
It's just an eyesore having double lines of mortar at regular intervals on brick walls, but it's a minor issue so i'll finish the map before looking into it.

Moving on, how can I include custom models in my map, I was able to modify the .fgd file for Trenchbroom and place the models but Quakespasm complains that there's no spawn function for the entities. 

Is it a custom texture? Sorry to be a pain, but any chance you could post a screenshot? 

No problem: https://s3.postimg.org/xxphtyncj/spasm0000.png 

To get custom .mdl files (things like trees, etc.) in to a map, one way is to run the map under a mod like AD or Quoth. Both of these have entities (AD's misc_model and Quoth's mapobject_custom) for this. 

So would that simply entail using the .fgd or .def file included with AD and then running the map under AD? 

*using the .fgd or .def file included with AD with trenchbroom. 

Ah, right - wbrick1_2 from rogue.

I've made a fixed version for you which you can download as a .wad here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B74rZcw0hvZpT0dOSzZCN0JlNWs 

I've slightly improved it...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B74rZcw0hvZpV2JjZGlBdnU1Qjg 

Yep, pretty much just load the AD fgd in trenchbroom, use the misc_model entity in your map, and install the .bsp in quake/ad/maps/, and load the map under AD in the engine.

You'll need to put the .mdl somewhere, and then put the path into the correct field of the misc_model entity. Normally, mdl files go in "quake/mod_name/progs" but you could also put it in "quake/ad/maps/your_map_name_XXX.mdl" which might be more tidy when it comes to distributing the map. 

@Kinn
Thanks, having the fixed texture from the start should save me having to manually replace textures later.
@ericw
Great, that simplifies things a lot. 

Hello,

I'm a new mapper. I'm using Trenchbroom2 and I often have a problem with building frames that fits around the arch-shaped doors of Quake. I can't easily get all sides of the frame being the same thickness.

Ideally, I would like to extrude the frame from the arch-shaped door's outside faces. When I extrude, I would expect the shape to snap to a grid aligned to the surface normal that I extrude from. However, when I do that, my extruded brush aligns to the axis-aligned grid, so when I do the slanted parts of the frame, they don't have the same thickness. This makes it impossible to have a door frame with a uniform width.

The other way I found to do a uniform arch frame is to rotate brushes around the door. This way, the thickness is guaranteed to be the same but it's very restrictive on the angles chosen, error-prone and complicated.

Do you guys have any tips to help me on building arches or similar structures? 

You can rotate in smaller increments in TB by entering a value in the menu bar and using that. The Gizmo sadly always rotates by the same interval :(

I think I would have to see pictures to understand what you're trying to do when you're extruding. 

http://imgur.com/a/tmtmz

Here a small tutorial i did for arches in TrenchBroom a little while back. 

This is an example of what I want to do (see the metal frame) :

http://imgur.com/a/1RioT

This one I did by rotating a piece around a brush with the door texture, cutting the door to fit with the frame. It doesn't give me the granularity I would like.

Ideally, I would like to be able to cut the door however I like and then extrude the frame from each outer faces of the door's brush. But that doesn't give me a frame with a uniform width (because of the snapping). 

And thanks mukor for the arches tutorial! It doesn't solve my problem but it seems like a way that generates cleaner geometry than how I was doing it in the past. I will use this way in the future 

Apparently I forgot to use my name on the previous replies... sorry about that! 

Does anyone know what's causing this weird shadow?
https://s10.postimg.org/7vs4ur9qx/spasm0000.png

I'm getting some strange behaviour around the disturbed coffins I'm placing, another one i've placed allows the player to walk through the side of it, and this one seems to cause janky shadow behaviour. 

Yeah, both of those are probably technically compiler (qbsp/light) bugs.

The lighting one is caused when there is an obstruction close to a face (less than 2 units away), so the coffin is preventing the lighting from getting set up properly for the floor. I actually will have a fix for this in the next version of my light tool, but for now you can either lift the coffin off the floor by 2 units (might be visible), or turn it into a func_wall and set the keys "_shadow" "1" so it still casts shadows.

The bad collision is just, qbsp tends to mess up on rotated geometry. Try making that coffin a func_wall as well. 

That fixed both issues, thanks. 

Hello! I am newbie, and I currently got inspired by R.P.G.'s map "And All That Could Have Been".

I read from Quaddicted description, that it used Speedbase textures, and I want to play with those.

There is some aesthetics that I really like. 

https://www.quaddicted.com/files/wads/speedbz_fin.zip 

appreciated much! 

I've realised why I don't see stuff like the coffins I'm placing commonly in maps, it seems that once you rotate angled surfaces on 2 or more axis texture lock fails and it becomes night impossible to align textures correctly. I take it I just need to be more conservative with rotating complex geometry?

Secondly, I'm able to place models using AD's misc_model, but as I can't see the model in-editor precise placement becomes tricky, is there any way to enable a preview, or a flag that will bring the base of the model flush with the surface above/below it? 

Also, when rotating composite objects arbitrarily (objects made of more than one brush) your plane points will be off-grid, and you will probably have micro-cracks where the brushes meet due to float inaccuracy. That could cause issues in the bsp, as you found earlier. 

Yeah, the limited texture lock comes from the vanilla .MAP format; Quake itself/compiled .BSP's can handle full texture lock.

You can choose the Valve 220 map format when you start a new map in TrenchBroom 2, which has full texture lock, the only problem is I don't know an easy / reliable way to convert vanilla to 220 if you've already started the map in vanilla format. 

Yeah, not being able to convert really sucks. Someone should write a tool to do it, assuming it would be possible at all. I'm stuck on standard format because when I started the map 220 was broken-ish in tb2... 

Hm.. yeah I'm going to take a shot at adding it to qbsp. 

How would that work? QBSP outputting a new .map? 

Yeah, it should be a separate tool I guess, but for now I just added a "-convert valve220" flag to qbsp that makes it output a new .MAP and exit. It adds a suffix so it doesn't overwrite the input map file. Seems to be working so I'll post a beta soon! 

That's fantastic! I'm in the same boat as Pritchard, and have been hoping for a standard-->220 converter for about a year and a half now. 

See this is why people are still mapping for Quake after 20 years. Tools updated by people who give a shit! Amazing - I have had this affect me a few times as well so this would be a welcome addition. Thanks. 

I started my first map going for a claustrophibic castle look, and used Ik-White textures because I loved mapjam2's aestetic the most. Now I have noticed that my architecture isn't interesting enough to compensate for the small number of ik- blue/white textures, as architecture was strong with ikka's maps. To replace the white textures I want to go with some nice brick walls. I would consider going with default Quake, just write the texture name. 

quake.wad, try some grey city textures? Search "city". In ad_start, search "stone". knave.wad has also some really good choices. 

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61211&start=770

This new update fixes a bug where < 1 unit gaps could cause bugs in light generation. It looks like what's happening there.
The other option is to look at your brushes and figure out what's weird about them. It's usually not a good idea to have such tiny gaps anyway... 

I need to remember to refresh both my memory and my browser... That post was written as a reply to #18379 which is quite an old post now... 

So with the help of the compiling log and the point file I could avoid getting a pts after compiling. I need help fixing three last errors. Warning 19: No entitys in empty space no filling performed (hull 1&2).
Warning 16 Texture TB_empty not found. How do I find those damn entitys flying in outer space? How do I find the face which I didn't texture, that got the standard Trenchbroom texture? 

Warning 19: No entitys in empty space no filling performed (hull 1&2).
This can happen if you have almost no entities in the map, and all of them are near walls.
When qbsp builds hull1/2, it expands all of the burshes, and if they happen to cover up all of the entities when expanded you can get this error. 

Well that's probably the issue 19 solved because I just wanted to have a sneakpeak of the level ingame and I just started working on it. How many units should I elavate my info_player1_start? I guess 10 should do. I still have to find the untextured face(es). 

42 

 

Hi I was wondering if anyone had any information about if modern quake engines have any limitations with respect to brushes, vertices, entities etc...

I am trying to make a map but am getting a little carried away with it. I am worried that I am working on something that will never run because I've taken it too far or something. It's gonna be awhile before it's sealed up and am wondering if that time would be better spent simplifying the brushwork.

SS of map in editor:
http://i.imgur.com/riPcFnE.png

SS of map in game (from a few days ago:)
http://i.imgur.com/m128dD2.png 

https://quakewiki.org/wiki/Engine_Limits
and with BSP2 you can go with even higher limits 

Okay next question, is there a way to check if a map exceeds these limits without compiling? 

is there a way to check if a map exceeds these limits without compiling
no. pretty much all the limits are subject to qbsp's csg or bsp tree logic, which can even vary from one qbsp to the next.
While you could try guessing based upon brush count, quite often its what you did with them that counts.

For instance, if your map has no leaks then the outside part of your map can be completely cut away, the leafs are merged, the nodes are redundant, those faces can be discarded, etc - this significantly reduces the amount of data needed.
If you have a lot of surfaces all cutting through each other then you'll have noticably more nodes/clipnodes per brush. Stuff like that.

Do note that there's an unsigned variant/reinterpretation of the vanilla format which doubles the formats limits from 32k to 64k in various cases, which is incompatible with vanilla (hence how various engines claim various 64k limits where vanilla does not). Many qbsps will generate this without even realising it (although light+vis utils might then bug out if they're really old, depending on what you exceeded). 

So from what you say and what I've read, I understand that as long as I'm sensible with my brush work, seal the map, use updated tools and compile with BSP2 that I don't have much to worry about?? 

Don't use BSP2 from the start, switch to it only when you reach the first limit.
Check your bsp with bspinfo to get more precise data, but from screenshots you have posted, I think you're far from the first limit. 

 

You use tyrutils it will give an error once you exceed the limits. Then you can add "-bsp2" to the qbsp parameters. 

I'm in leak hell. Absolutely stumped :P

Using Tyrutils v15.4 & J.A.C.K editor

The map leaks through solid walls into the void. There are no entities outside the level. The map is sealed. I've meticulously checked everything. When I put giant brushes over half the map to leak hunt, the un-boxes part leaks, this repeats no matter where I put the brushes. I literally covered the entire level in giant brushes aside from the player start box and it still leaked.

Any ideas a very much appreciated :) 

Here's a brush from the map file
( 193.373 -320.665 600 ) ( 192.665 -321.373 600 ) ( 216 -343.293 600 ) COP1_2 [ 0.707093 -0.707121 0 -11.127 ] [ -0.707107 -0.707107 -0 -59.0101 ] 0 1.00098 0.999997
( 215.293 -344 632 ) ( 192.665 -321.373 632 ) ( 216 -343.293 632 ) COP1_2 [ 0.707114 -0.707099 0 -11.4788 ] [ -0.707107 -0.707107 -0 -59.01 ] 0 1 0.999997
( 216 -343.293 632 ) ( 216 -343.293 600 ) ( 215.293 -344 632 ) COP1_2 [ 0.707099 0.707114 -0 59.0142 ] [ -0 -0 -1 56 ] 0 0.999997 1
( 192.665 -321.373 632 ) ( 192.665 -321.373 600 ) ( 193.373 -320.665 632 ) COP1_2 [ 0.707099 0.707114 0 59.0139 ] [ 0 0 -1 56 ] 0 0.999997 1
( 215.293 -344 632 ) ( 215.293 -344 600 ) ( 192.665 -321.373 632 ) COP1_2 [ 0.707107 -0.707107 -0 -11.4797 ] [ -0 -0 -1 56 ] 0 1 1
( 193.373 -320.665 632 ) ( 193.373 -320.665 600 ) ( 216 -343.293 632 ) RUNE_A [ 0.707107 -0.707107 0 -11.4801 ] [ 0 -0 -1 24 ] 0 0.999999 1

Horray for guinea pigging new level editors 

In JACK you can free rotate a selection of vertices in vertex edit mode around a pivot point under your mouse cursor by right click -> dragging in the 2d view. Even if you go back and move the rotated verts back onto grid after the operation they will be off by a tiny amount, resulting in the crazy decimal points.

So : PSA - Don't use vertex free rotate mode! 

http://i.imgur.com/2qIIzYV.png

So, I recently converted my map from standard to valve 220 format, thanks to ericw's recent tool update. As nice as textures not "shearing" all of the time when you do weird and kinky things to your brushes is though, I find myself missing the nicer way that standard format seems to handle textures wrapped around curved brushes.

The image linked at the top of the post is an example of this - both are valve 220 brushes, but the left one has texturing from before I converted the map, and the other has had its textures freshly "reset" to no offset/rotation/scaling.

Does anyone have any tips for getting the sort of look that the brush on the left has for "new" brushes? I imagine it must be possible in the format still, but it obviously does not come naturally... 

Getting this error in Quakespazm. Solutions I've tried is using the find/replace feature in notepad to remove all water/sky textures from map, and also tied "-subdivide 256" on the Txqbsp command line. (without fully understanding what it does.) It still fails to load.

I'm beginning to think that the issue is architectural. i.e. too much visible to player or something. Could that be the case? The map on a fastvis was in the ballpark of 30+ megs which is something I've never seen before. And if thats the case, is there anything I can do to salvage the map?

in editor screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/4b0xReO.png 

It's definitely not too much architectural detail, most likely bad texture alignment on a face.

My light tool used to print an error for this with the texture name and coordinates of the face to aid fixing it, but it looks like that message was broken at some point. I can take a look at the bsp if you want. 

I'm trying download DaZ's .fgd from post #18307, but I get the 404 error.
Where I get JACK-compatible .fgd for vanilla Quake and Ericw compilers? 

I had this error recently, you may have a brush somewhere with a texture that is either squished waaaaay to small or stretched waaaay to high.

I ended up pasting the map file into excel, using spaces to delimit the rows, then sorting by the last row to see the highest and lowest values.

I don't know what the exact limits are, but I would get rid of any texture that is scaled smaller than 0.1 or larger than 5. 

if you notice in the SS, that none of the textures are aligned, that is because I selected all and reset textures in an effort to solve a problem with texture scale that was causing BSP to fail.. It worked but loading the map would still crash the engine. "Bad Surface Extants." it says.

I managed to compile a "working" version of the map by placing a giant brush in the middle of it, effectively blocking view to the other side. It runs fine apparently in Quakespasm no problem but the map was targeted for quakeworld and in QW its a disaster.

QS SS: http://i.imgur.com/22j6yh3.png
QW SS: http://i.imgur.com/4QWcwXM.png

I thought that running a full vis overnight might solve the QW issues but when I woke up it still had 33 hrs to go. Also in QW it takes some time for it to load and you need the -mem 128 command line too.

It was a lot of fun putting this map together but find that working within the the perimeters of QBSP and engine (somewhat restrictive) capabilities to be an unforeseen challenge. I'm still compelled to work on it, but a lot of my focus will be on scaling it back, or salvaging the more clever brushwork (by my standards) for more sensible application.

I loved mapping for Quake back in the day and find that modern editors are so fluid and responsive that it's very easy to become drunk with power. 

Which compilers did you use - does this occur with bjptools_xt or tyrutils_ericw? 

TxQBSP 1.13 I want to experiment more with the existing compilers though. 

Make sure that your faces are all set to 'world' alignment, not 'face'. (P.S. world/face terms used by Worldcraft/JACK/Hammer and may not match terminology for your editor) 

is so similar to a map I was working on over a year ago it's crazy... it took me a second to realise it wasnt the same map. 

This link should work for the fgd https://www.dropbox.com/s/lv4r7tmcspcz2gt/quake4ericwTools.fgd?dl=0 

Big thanks for this. 

how to create transparent glass? 

Introduce manganese dioxide into the manufacturing process. 

... is your friend ... (but I didn;t have link in mind where you could find it)

OK, others, please correct me if I do not remember properly:

1/ Create a brush using a "plain" water texture (i.e using only one color) and name it *<watername>: this wil be your glass

2/ Create a func_wall of the exact same size, and use a skip texture there

3/ Add skip tool in your list of compilation tool, after bsp process (bsp/skip/vis/light). So ultimately the func_wall will have its texture removed but remains solid (you can't pass through it), but the "water" texture remains gicing the glass texture visual.

4/ Load the map, and adjust r_water_alpha value in the console to a value that is below 1.. the closer to 0, the more transparent the glass.

Enjoy ! 

An alternative way is to use a solid color texture (such as grey) and make it a func_wall.

Add an alpha key with value of however transparent you want the glass (So .65 for example). 

... but I am not sure this is supported by all engines... not even sure the other techniques is working with all engines either.. though... 

https://www.quaddicted.com/reviews/mfxsp17.html

This map has an example of glass. It comes with a .map that you can look at to see how it was done. 

Neither technique would work with the original engines as far as I know, but I'm pretty sure that the alpha key has been a thing for a while... someone correct me if I'm wrong of course. 

alpha key doesn't always work as intented. I usually make teleporters' liquid a func_wall with alpha 1, but it often looks transparent anyway (I noticed that in videos/streams) 

Quakespasm supports seperate alpha for water/slime/lava/telefluid set in worldspawn just fyi :) 

What are the potential problems if exceeding the vertexes limit? I'm pretty much right at it now. However, only just noticed that I had exceeded it by roughly 4000 in MCE with no apparent downsides that I'm aware of?! 

Quakespasm supports seperate alpha for water/slime/lava/telefluid set in worldspawn just fyi :)

I must have missed it. 

BSP 29 has a hard limit of 65536 verts, because face edges reference verts with a 16-bit unsigned integer. I doubt any qbsp will let you exceed this and still write out a BSP 29 file because the map rendering would be totally messed up if it did.

Where was the warning / limit coming from? 

http://quakespasm.sourceforge.net/Quakespasm.html#ss6.3

func_wall with alpha 1, but it often looks transparent anyway (I noticed that in videos/streams)
What engine was that with? AFAIK that is a bug, at least with the Fitzquake / protocol 666 interpretation of alpha. the Fitz 0.85 code specifically mentions that "_alpha" "0" means to use r_wateralpha for liquids, but other "_alpha" values besides 0 take precedence over r_wateralpha 

Thanks so much. Bookmarked! 

TxQbsp reports WARNING: Vertexes 33657 exceed normal engine max 32767.

But it seems there are no consequences, maybe only in software Quake. 

vanilla's vertex limit is 65535 apparently.
I didn't check the asm to ensure that it doesn't sign extend, but otherwise the datatypes are already unsigned and thus already 65k. 

What engine was that with?

Quakespasm, don't know the version, I guess the recent one. Gotta check it out myself.
Btw it was with func_illusionary, not func_wall if that matters. Works correctly in latest mark v tho. 

Hi, I've been searching for some info but wasn't able to find anything conclusive. The map I'm working on is almost done, I've made some huge changes and the map is now fully playable in WinQuake, a program I've not used in... let's not say how long.

The only problem is greyflash, I know easily fixable by setting r_surfs and r_edges to say 10000, and the map runs perfect. I wan't to reduce the amount of polys being rendered so the map runs akin to and id map. Essentially max 800 surfs, 2400 edges. I am almost there, 80% of the map is below this limit.

Will doing a full vis help this? Haven't done it yet and it may take at least a day or so. Is there any other way to reduce what is rendered, I've already simplified and added "S turns." Any help is appreciated.

Thanks. 

I think you should have run vis first, before making huge changes. In GLQuake, vis can reduce r_speeds by a factor of 10 or more. If that has any correlation to r_surfs and r_edges in WinQuake, it may have been all you needed to do. 

Yeah that's what I was guessing. The reason I made changes had nothing to do with VIS. I had to reduce entities, edicts and marksurfaces to be compliant with WinQuake. I will give VIS level 4 a try though. Thank you. 

help guys:
I'm trying a Q1 total conversion(a true one! as Carmack stated in gpl readme) and I created my monsters totally re-skinning the standard knight model in qme.
So,in a supposed commercial release, may I use them also with the knight animations left untouched in qme ?
-my monsters don't resemble id original in any way and after all animations frames are only numeric values in qme.. not assets I guess- 

the knights are in the free shareware Quake demo (pak0.PAK), you're fine. 

Besides, shareware Quake may only be used to testplay the game, not used to run mods or build upon. Don't be fooled by things like nQuake and the like claiming it's all legal and "free Quake". 

I'm pretty sure the sources were GPL'd and not the assets. Unless you're remodelling the whole thing from scratch, you can't use so much as a frame. 

yes, indeed the id assets remain under copyright, but I hoped at least one may use a flat-shaded primitive monster model as a base :(
..that could save me a lot of work
By the way why nobody tries to do TC's anymore since gpl license let you even sell them ? 

yes, indeed the id assets remain under copyright, but I hoped at least one may use a flat-shaded primitive monster model as a base :(
..that could save me a lot of work
Make new, better models. Old ones are ok, but for example UVs are garbage, wastes a lot of space.

By the way why nobody tries to do TC's anymore since gpl license let you even sell them ?
Laziness... ;D
Making TC is like making a new game. idTech 2 is quite outdated and has few annoying downsides, so I guess people prefer to work on their project with newer engines, especially when engines like Unity/Unreal are widely available. 

Would be if you were already familiar with it and wanted to develop in an iterative manner, replacing what you needed to as you got to it.

... And having said that there are probably still better options out there for this. 

hey guys... what's the current state of lit water? engines that support it? main branches of compilers that do? 

How do I turn the key into a rune key?
I don't know the spawnflag or key name. 

"worldtype" "1" in worldspawn

(there's also "2" for base keys: https://quakewiki.org/wiki/worldspawn ) 

Change Worldtype key to value 1 (Metal/Runic) from World Spawn. 

As the QuakeWiki says that it's not only for the purpose of changing key models.
Thanks anyways for that info. 

Different key models and pickup sounds, and the sounds/touch messages of key doors. 

When creating my own monsters/animations in QME do I have to maintain all references, names/numbers of frames, numbers of vertices/objects or else QC will go mad and possibly won't load ?(!)
thank 

If you want to use original progs, then you'll have to keep same frames as original models, because reading frames into animations is hardcoded in QC.

So for example if run is on frame1-frame10, you'll have to make new run animation in this range. 

My Quake forever proyect is back. It was forgotten long time for the exams, music, video proyects, searching my center. My biggest trouble is fix the leaks, point file, glitches.

I'm using TB 2.0 version and I really need your help guys to fix my maps, I have the leak .pts file generated from the qbsp in my directory, but I don't know were to put the reached occupant in TB 2.0 (-1248 64 -24 supposedly). In the old TB I remember I can put the coordinates of the leak and automatly select the object coincident. How I do it in TB 2.0? 

 

 

Why on earth would you add light properties to some arbitrary entity when you can just make a light entity in the place where you need the light (which makes what's going on clearer in the editor)...?

Is there any trick/benefit here that I'm missing? 

(assuming tyrutils-ericw used) you can add the "_minlight" key to a brush model to give the model a uniform base light level, but adding the "light" key just makes it act like a regular light (right?) and because that light will be emitted from the model origin, it is unlikely to light the brush model in a way that you'd like. 

To powerups and weapons can make it easier to light instead of having a hard-to-select light on top of the item.

Otherwise, ya put in a normal light. 

I'm sure that once upon a time light tools would only look at the lighting keys from entities whose classname began with "light". Has that changed?

I'd be glad if it has changed, as it's really helpful for mapobjects in two ways: firstly you can create a custom torch model etc and have it emit light just like a normal torch. I was considering adding a classname "light_mapobject_custom" to Quoth to work around it.

Secondly: for mapobjects which aren't obviously lights, a tight spotlight pointing straight down can be used to finely control the light levels of the model (perhaps with negative light if it's too bright). Adding the keys directly to the mapobject entity would make this trick a bit simpler and more robust. 

A good post. 

A well put posted post. 

I got the idea for lights on weapons from id, e4m6 or 7 I think.

I thought all compilers supported this? 

can water brushes be a door, platform or train? How about changing water levels like in OoT? The only design flaws were the obviously broken boot-change mechanic and the sometimes not so obvious hints to a puzzle, otherwise it stands as one of the best dungeons of the game. 

 

Making my first Quake map I somehow managed to assign a light value to an enforcer. It took me a while to figure out why that monster closet was so bright.

I don't remember what the actual compiling tools were. That was 1996/97 so probably whatever came with the original Worldcraft. 

I hope it will work :) 

#18478: take a look at http://quake.chaoticbox.com/downloads/extras_r4.zip mod. It has the best usage of changing water levels that I've found so far.

Also, AD supports puddles that drain with the trigger_touchsound which oddly is more of a func_ since it is visible. 

Complete noob to mapping here, been experimenting with it and have been trying to figure out a kind of odd scenario- is there a way to prevent an entity from appearing until the player has done something else in the map, i.e. pressing a button or killing a certain enemy? I know monsters can be teleported in, but I mean things like a pickup or message trigger not existing until it's called. Something like the episode gates that only appear if you have the rune, but within a single map (and without runes).

I'd imagine it's possible to kludge something together for item pickups (hide them in the roof/walls/floor and raise them when triggered), but what about entities that can't be pushed around like that? 

It depends on the MOD you use.
With vanilla quake you only have the ability to have monsters spawned in from closets. (Think of rooms not connected to the map layout. Put a trigger_teleport around the monster, and a teleport_destination where you want to spawn that monster. All you have to do is now to target the trigger_teleport when desired. (Button pressed or trigger_counter fired or or...)

With MODs like Quoth or AD this is even easier, just give the monster a spawnflag (iirc 32 in quoth, 96 in AD) and target the monster via your setup. (Monster needs a targetname set for this to work.) 

One (complicated) option I've considered using but haven't yet was having an exact copy of the section of your map with the revised entities.

So you have section A of the map and an alternate version that's unreachable outside the play area. Let's call it A-2. Your player moves through A and kills monsters etc. Moves forward to section B (make sure and separate A from B with a "gate" of some kind - a door, teleporter, elevator.) The player moves thru B to hit a button or solve a puzzle required to move ahead back in section A. By teleporting the player back or finding some other way to route them back to the copy A-2 you could have all kinds of things going on. The dead monsters would be missing but I can't think of any other downside other than that interconnected areas would not work with this method. 

@18488
I know about teleporting monsters, I was hoping for something similar for entities that can't be teleported (which monsters can be) and can't be pushed by func_doors (which health/armor/weapons/pickups can be).

@18489
That's actually a damn clever idea, and the dead monsters could be handled by adding static dead-monster models in the second version of the map- they wouldn't be in the exact spots they died in the original, but not many players would be that attentive anyway. Only thing is depending on the size of the map section, that could be a *lot* of brushes and entities to double up on (and if the branching point is at the very start of the map, pretty much out of the question), and would require some smart design to not make the transition too obvious. 

https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/further-logic-gates-for-2017/

I think you are looking for logic gates?

In vanilla quake you can setup up logic gate map hacks to get things like triggers activating AFTER you do something else in the map. 

Check out the entity state system in Arcane Dimensions. It generalizes the idea of starting "off" (invisible, like it's not spawned), "disabled" (visible but no interactions), or "on" (visible and normal behaviour) to most entities.

You can start an entity in a particular state, and switch entities to a new state by triggering a "trigger_entitystate_on" or "trigger_entitystate_off" (etc.) that targets the entity you want to modify.

It's great for swapping in new gameplay to the same area of a map. 

@Bloughsburgh
I've read a number of articles on that site regarding logic gates in Quake, and the implementation seems solid, even if reading it tends to make me go glassy-eyed after a bit- however the issue here isn't making something (call it Thing A) only usable after the player does something else, it's making Thing A not be apparent or interactive to the player in the first place until they do something else.

Think of it like walking down a hallway, doing something at the end of the hallway, then on the way back a message appears telling the player something by way of a trigger_once that now exists in the hall. In this case the trigger_once is Thing A. I know you could make that message appear easily by use of an automatic delay once the player accomplishes whatever's at the end of the hall, but you won't be able to dictate exactly where they are when the message comes through.

I hope I'm making sense, it's hard to put this type of thing into words and I am not good with computer.

@ericw
Arcane Dimensions is actually the exact mod that made me start thinking about this- specifically, the keycards in Crucial Error and tomes in Bogbottom that don't appear at all until you've already been someplace else and triggered whatever causes them to appear. I know AD has heaps of new features like that but I was looking for something that works in vanilla Quake, in a single .bsp without requiring a -game switch or any additional codebase used. 

Walking down the hallway and in the middle is an inactive trigger and on the way back that trigger is now active and will provide a message?

That's a logic gate to me.

Now if you want that now active trigger to make something appear that isn't an item? I could be over complicating things but you could do something like have it lower from an invisible func_door in the ceiling being targeted by that previous inactive trigger or thing A haha.

It's confusing to be sure. 

People always link to the logic gate one but that's massively overkill a lot of the time. They mean to link to this tutorial:

https://tomeofpreach.wordpress.com/2012/11/18/mid-map-entity-spawning/

Important editorial note, this tutorial includes a prank! The first example of spawning an ogre doesn't work, it just crashes your map. Perhaps I should have started with an example that works, then moved on to one that doesn't, oh well. The point is that you can delay spawn a trigger using the method in this article, which does exactly what you need for your hallway example.

This works for a variety of entities, but triggers are certainly the best case. Monsters don't work, but you can use teleporters there. If you try this trick on a particular entity and it doesn't work, just say and I'll see if I can find a trick... 

Thanks. I hope the original poster is able to use this. I will try it out too. 

The method in that article is dead simple and works perfectly, thanks a ton! Haven't experimented with many other entity types yet but it works fine for the hallway example from above- I cobbled together a quick example map (.bsp and .map included) for anyone browsing in the future who can't quite figure it out. 

When I'm distributing my map, is it alright to include my own folder that becomes part of the mod the map is for?

My map uses AD, but I have a small set of custom models I need to include with my map. To keep things organized, right now I have them stored in a separate folder from where models are usually stored in AD (progs/), which is simply named "pritchard".

Is this the right way to include custom models with my map? 

In fact it's the correct way of avoiding any filename conflicts. 

All you want is to avoid any conflicts between assets.
Do follow these simple guidelines.

/progs/ is for .mdl and .mdl only!

/maps/your_folder_here/ is for anything .bsp.
For example all breakable rubble models you make should go into maps/your_folder_here/ (if they are bsp, but i assume nobody makes rubble .mdls these days)
Bsp models are the easier way to have external custom content. 

Hey guys!

Long time Quake fan, first time poster. I've been playing a lot of Darkplaces Mod for Q1 recently and decided to look into mapping for it. I'm familiar with GTKRadiant as I used to make Jedi Knight 2 and Quake 3 maps but after some googling I found Trenbroom and decided I wanted to use it.

Is it possible to use Trenchbroom to make levels for Quake 1 Darkplaces? I can't find a tutorial on how to setup Trenchbroom to do it. Does anyone have one? I keep getting the error "cannot find: (filepath)" 

TrenchBroom thread:

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60908

NetRadiant thread:

http://celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=61357 

Does somebody have a prefab map that predefines all surface lights as light entities for ericw's light? 

Is it normal that they're very bright with very low light values?

E.g. I use -surflight_subdivide 8 -bounce 4 and light=2 is already kinda bright 

I don't have an example map handy, but the surface lights feature is pretty dumb (was one of the first things I wrote when learning lighting). it's just automated copy/paste of the template entity, and with "-surflight_subdivide 8" they'll be duplicated every 8x8 units, which will create a ton of lights. There's no scaling of brightness to compensate for the subdivision size. 

Unless ericw has changed it, bounce values above 1 do nothing. It's binary, on or off. 

Hows everyone doing? I'm back this time i bought Quake 3 from steam, downloaded it and gtkradiant and now when i try to make a map it shows "shader image missing" on 99% of the textures? Can anyone please help????! 

Have you specified the correct path-name for the location of the shaders? Check this link: https://jkhub.org/topic/2800-shader-image-missing/

Otherwise I have no idea, might have better luck on a Q3 dedicated or Radiant forum.

Redfield 

Hi everyone, there is a lot of information about rotating brushes available, but its a complex thing depending on what one is building. I haven't been able to find anything concrete.

I have built a rotating bridge in a map for Arcane Dimensions using the standard Hipnotic entities with A.D. The bridge works fine, is lit, and has collision, the problem is the bridge is so large I have to use "a million" func_movewalls for the collision.

I found a post by Preach hinting that you can use Hipnotic rotation and add "solid" to the shell without using func_movewalls. I have no idea what this means or if its possible without changing the code. As it is, the bridge works fine I'm just wondering if someone can help me simplify the func_movewalls issue.

Thanks, Redfield 

Just a stab in the dark here but have you un-pak'd the textures?

Another possible helpful link: https://ws.q3df.org/level_design/editors/ 

I think that's the very reason the Hipnotic rotation code is considered such as massive hack and extremely awkward to use.
No idea what Preach said or hinted at, nor what your bridge looks like and how it's supposed to work, but just to throw in a random idea for a workaround: perhaps you could block the player from crossing the bridge until the rotation has finished? And only use the movewalls for the floor parts and spawn an invisible func_wall afterwards to make sure everything clips correctly once the bridge is in its final position? 

Give key of "solid" and value of "4".

Don't know what will happen once it rotates but good luck. 

support for rotating SOLID_BSP entities depends upon the engine in question.

hipnotic rotation is a massive hack because it works around the engine not supporting rotation for physics, and that it does so by using so many entities.
unfortunately many engines still do not offer a better alternative, and frankly, hull size limitations will always be an issue with true rotation anyway. 

Players can walk across moderately sized gaps without incident, can't they? Depending on who will be using your bridge, perhaps you could just chop bits out of your func_movewall hell to reduce the entity count. Be careful, as the gaps will have to be conservative, and if monsters need to cross while it's in motion it probably won't work very well.

You could also incorporate the latter part of negke's suggestion into this to make it work better when it's stationary. 

Thanks for the tips everyone. I did make some adjustments to the func_movewalls and now there is less of them and it works more fluidly. The problem was they weren't square brushes along the axis of rotation and so were being displaced in one direction or the other. I made them the same length and width and now they move more fluidly with the rotate_object.

I made a cheesy video of it that can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWMlfJ4cFfQ The movewalls are made visible in the video. If anyone wants to take a look and give some suggestions I'd appreciate it.

I did try adding a solid key with value 4. It had no effect I could see. The brushes were non solid and I couldn't walk on the bridge. I could also try negke's suggestion and simply have some func_walls that are invisible and toggle based on the switch, but as it is the movewalls are doing an ok job.

This was a real puzzle. I initially had the func_movewalls as a grouped entity and nothing worked. It drove me nuts trying to figure out what was wrong. 

I was picturing a drawbridge but that is even better. 

 

I seem to have two trains here that have a shifted cliphull (or draw surfaces?)

any idea on that? 

See if you accidentally gave them an angle field. 

Maybe I'm missing something, but why don't more people use weapons/monsters from the mission packs? I almost never see them used; even Quoth is way more common to use for variety. I do sometimes see mission pack textures used in packs for jams, but that's about it. 

I've wondered the same thing. I have planned on doing multiple versions of the same map for a while to give players alternative playthroughs. My Deathmatch map Lividus release added support for both mission packs but I've only just started SP mapping a while back. My current map will be released for vanilla and maybe a Zerstorer version later. I think it's a good idea to take a bit of extra time and give people more than just one version. Maybe a "remix" version for Hipnotic or Rogue or both with all new secrets. I think that would be a fun approach and entice people to replay maps.

I believe I saw a project a few months back here that combines everything from the mission packs and other mods into one giant progs.dat/pak but not sure of the status.

More info on my Lividus map here: https://secretlevelsite.wordpress.com/my-levels/ 

i probably did. what does that do? 

What do you mean that you "added support" for both mission packs? As in the weapons from the packs are included in the your DM map? And your current map being released for vanilla and Zerstorer? You just mean the theme? Like the Zerstorer version will use Zer textures or something? 

Well "added support" is a clumsy way of saying I made additional bsps with those entities added to the map. In the zip file I provided 3 separate versions of the map for id1, hipnotic and rogue.

I'm not sure how far I will go beyond textures for the Zerstorer version of my current map. I played the original when it came out (1997?) so I need to read the the dev notes and see how much work making a specific version for that mod would take. IIRC there are only new weapons, sound code and cinematic tools. It's funny because someone said on QuakeOne "reminds me of Zerstorer" so I thought what the heck? Let me "re-skin" the level and add a few entities as I did before. Not sure if it's gonna be a mess or worthwhile. 

And by entities you just mean you added the weapon entities for each version of the game as some variety for the deathmatch?

Yeah, I suppose the defining elements of Zer were the cutscenes and textures. Just wanted to clarify what you meant.

It's kind of a shame about the mission packs, it just seems really odd to me that they are barely even mentioned on Func. I don't think I've ever played a release with mission pack content outside of textures used for a retrojam or something. 

There are a lot of mods out there that borrow enemies and gameplay (rotating brushes etc.) from the packs...
As to why there are so few maps made for the packs themselves, perhaps it's an accessibility thing? I have no idea where I'd go to find editor .fgd or .def files for them, nor documentation in general for that matter...

Not that I've really looked, but still... 

Terracity uses gremlins. #shamelessplug

But my uber mod will make accessing using mission pack content easy...someday #shamelessplug2omg

There is a link for mispack fgds zip on this site:https://www.quakewiki.net/archives/worldcraft/files/files.shtm 

 

Just wanted to say that you struck a cord with me because being able to use both mision packs was the original impetus for my uber mod. And I couldn't leave out AD, and so on. 

What's your uber mod? You got a thread about it yet? 

Combines totality of features from ID1, Hipnotic, Rogue, Quoth (not latest version), Kinn, and several other mods all under and including AD latest version along with my additions such as my programmable syncronizing robot (megasuper func_train).

Close to feature complete, working on documentation, readme, example map, and finishing at least one of my sprawling maps that uses the mod before releasing it. 

So it's going to be an amalgamation of entities from official Id content and big mods? Lots of different monsters/weapons/textures etc.? 

I suppose they aren't used much, because they were never freely available and easily accessible like mods and aren't as versatile. Even now, I'd imagine many players only own the main game, not the mission packs.

Personally, I don't really think it's worthwhile making or re-playing a map a second time in the missonpacks just for some additional monsters or items - only if the experience was substantially different. 

When were they added to Steam? Both the packs are $6 total, easily accessible.

I'm not saying maps should be remixed to be used with entities in mission packs - or other mods for that matter - but it just seems strange that base maps aren't made with a mixture of the guns/monsters that the mission packs include. After all, it's official content. Why miss out on that variety?