Is it okay come compile time if I have vertices that are "off the grid" in the editor? Does that work?

I know editing such brushwork is a nightmare, I'm just asking if the map compiles/renders/displays fine in Quake. 

but sometimes you get things that will make the player drop through the floor or similar.

If you need to go way off grid for your geometry, make sure that it is on detail brushes or unimportant shit that the player won't interract with. 

Your indications for the last secret seem to match the RED ARMOR secret, which I've already mentioned, so I thought it was obvious I wasn't talking about this one. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The two secrets I've found are the LG and RA. 

sry, i read your comments hastely. XP
The last then is near the goldkey door, if you make 180 dgree turn (at the gold door) you'll see the super shotgun.
then you have to manuver your self carefully to the edge of a rock and jump to the weapon, if you mess it up you'll drop into the void and die. 

Hi guys,
I took all the feedback, and made changes to the gameplay, also fixed floors with clipping brushes, and water with illusionary, checked for texture alignment(as well as i can), and changed the torches into flames in some areas where i thought it was necesary.

I watched Skaky's demo and it had some really solid feedback, and fixed the things he pointed out. (couldnt fix the first hallway texture alignment, i even tried rebuilding parts of it but couldnt make it work)


Now im giving you guys another version of soofa for nitpicking. Demos are excelent ways to point out mistakes in the map. If possible send me a demo where you pointout mistakes and fixes. This will be the last test version, after this ill fix everything you guys will point out and then I'll publish the map.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/sflnsw5jo9if45o/soofa_beta2%282%29.bsp


P.s. If i missed some fixes in the first round, I'm sorry. There was alot of feedback and i didnt write them down, but this time ill try be more precise. :) 

Some feedback:

1) Still loving this map, and excited to see it developing further.

2) I've played the previous version (properly) in the mean time and watched Skacky's demo, which has excellent advice. But maybe tone things down a bit for skills 0 and 1, once you implement skill settings. The map seems calibrated for skills 2/3 or for really skilled players at the moment. I usually play on skill 1, and at the moment I find this a little too hard/frustrating.

3) Texturing/texture alignment: are you talking about the hallway with the grey bricks on sloped surfaces, where Skacky suggested rotating the texture? It looks a LOT better now, but you could improve things further by decreasing the scale of the texture on the sloped parts slightly, until it more or less matches up with the rest. The angle looks right, though.

I still think the wooden texture on the staircase leading up to the SK door should be completely horizontal all over (as opposed to having one sloped piece, as it does at the moment) -- but maybe others would disagree...

4) Brushwork: I can't tell if you've changed this at all, but as I think others have pointed out too, the brushes on the edges of the map are cut off a little abruptly. It would look better/more convincing if you moved your sky brushes a bit further out and made your rock and wall brushes around the edges of the map a bit thicker/rounded/three-dimensional.

5) The new area towards the beginning is a nice addition, but it feels a little pointless at the moment, as there is nothing really there. Perhaps add a secret to this area?

6) Speaking of which, I feel that the cells in the little underwater alcove should count as a secret. Or if that's too obvious, maybe hide a secret door behind the cells.

7) I don't know if it's still incomplete, but I couldn't figure out how to complete the final arena and get the bars in front of the exit to lower. I couldn't trigger the door hiding the Shambler either.

8) The two windows that are on floor level in the final area look a bit weird too, as it looks as if you should be able to jump out, but then you're blocked by a skybrush. If you can't jump out, it shouldn't look as if you can -- so I'd say either make it possible to jump out (with a pain trigger/void if you're feeling sadistic or a teleporter back if you're not) or cover the window with bars or something. 

I've taken a few screenshots to illustrate some of what I wrote above. I feel weird about uploading screenshots of someone else's WIP onto imgur, so I wanted to ask you first if that would be ok. 

Demo with comments.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/108695968/fornait.dem.zip 

Sure, go ahead. 

i don't know if it's only me, but i get a 'heretic' vibe in the silver key area. or maybe heretic mixed with quake. i like the style.


http://imgur.com/a/xiAC5
i can jump and bypass those iron bars and i did just that the first time and it worked. it's not a hard jump. 

Texture alignment on stairs: Note the misaligned textures above, and the sloped/horizontal combination beneath. In both instances I'd suggest selecting both adjacent brushes together, and then entering a new texture angle/offset value. so that the two textures have the exact same value (I'm guessing "0" in both instances, but it's been months since I've touched an editor). That will make them correctly aligned.

Textures on sloped bricks: Note the areas marked in black. You can fix or at least decrease this misalignment by changing the scale and offset of the texture on the sloped surface, until it matches up with the surface next to it. If you're using TB and using the arrow keys, I think you might need to set your grid size to 1 or 2 if you want to able to make fine adjustments -- but as I said, it's been a while, so I might be wrong here.

Map edges/rocks & bricks: This is what I meant by saying it'd look better if you pushed your sky brushes outwards a little and made your rocks/bricks on the edges of the map a bit thicker/fuller/more 3D.
Here are two more examples of where the rocks should be thicker.
Same thing here, only horizontal: those "roof" rocks would look better if they were a little thicker (and your sky brush higher).

Here you've done it right. 

In that one picture it's foliage, not rocks. But you know what I mean. :) 

topher
Cool jump! maybe someone will make a speedrun out it! There is a skip i left in the map on purpose at the last area, maybe someone will find it! If not, its ok.

total_newbie
I'll fix those stairs, sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.
Map edges, skaky had the same comment, so ill fix that also. I think ill add a void behind the brickwall so you can fall off.
"two" is actually supposed to be like that. Its a hedge wall.
the SK-Area rocks I will still fix. Thanks for your help!

Shamblernaut, watched your demo, i agree with the comments! I will add a void in the last area! good texture stuff. YOu got the secrets "correctly" ;)
the shootable buttons, ill change the texture! Thanks for the comments!

Tomorrow I'll publish my map and start working on a new one. 

sloped bricks are a pain, maybe the scaling will be ok.

Don't forget to play with "offset" too -- that'll let you move the texture up and down and side to side, until it lines up.

Did you use standard Quake format or Valve format for your map? Because using Valve format can make things a lot easier with sloped surfaces ... so it might be something to keep in mind for future projects (I don't think it's currently possible to convert an existing map from standard to Valve. But I'm hoping someone will make a tool to do just that, as I have a few maps I'd love to convert). 

i used the standard quake format in trenchbroom 3 

Hey, I'm going to do the last fixes to SOOFA, but my fingers are already itching to create a new map. I already have vague concept. I want to use AD 1.5 for this map How do i set Trenchbroom for AD? 

Entity Tab
-Click Show at the bottom
-Browse for More under the External section
-Select the ad_quake.fgd file that's in your ad directory. 

and in map tab
- click at the bottom 'Mods'
- enable ad (it will appear in Available column) 

probably a stupid question, but is there a unselect button?? 

In TrenchBroom 2? Esc to unselect 

thanks!!! 

Leaks: Are these a big deal? should I be aiming to have no leaks in a level? can I just copy paste and rotate non-player area detail stuff and not worry too much? are leaks mostly a problem in places where the player can actually go? 

Leaks are pretty bad. You don't want them ever. Your map must be sealed much like a water-tight container.

more here: http://www.quake-1.com/wc16a-tutorial/speed.html 

Don't worry, there should be pointfile after compiling your map. When you open your map, typo "pointfile" to your console and after that "developer 1" (1 = on / 0 = off). Then you should see White lines bouncing somewhere in your map. Try locate area where that Line goes ovet your map's intented boundaries and try figure out how to avoid it no go through for example some corners, maybe light is too near some possible leak area etc. Others correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I can visualize it (don't know about technical terminology) 

Some (I know TB2 does, I don't have experience with any others) editors allow you to visualize map leaks in-editor, which is nice since you can fix it while looking at it, decreasing iteration time. Otherwise, what NewHouse said is fine.

With modern computers, speeds in Quake levels are rarely an issue. But not everyone has a modern computer, and some people enjoy being able to play Quake on their older PCs regardless of whether or not they have a "better" machine available, so it's important to avoid leaks or poor sealing.

I'm not sure if it's actually worse than just having a straight-up leak in your level or not, but one thing that people sometimes do to avoid having to seal leaks is to encase their entire map in a giant cube of skybox. This is a very bad idea; yes, you can run .vis on your map, but it will take much, much longer, and besides that, you're still not addressing the root issue, which could end up having significant effects regardless of whether or not your map is "sealed".