Shambler
#17 posted by digs on 2014/02/21 02:16:25
In the central part of the hall, exists are 4 teleport, which are activated when you run through things ( aid kit, rockets, yellow armor). Then the boss will teleport behind your back. But teleports are low. If you lift the boss on a platform, he can not teleport
Okay I Get That.
#18 posted by Shambler on 2014/02/21 18:16:42
Cunning set-up. It's a pity that's not made clear to the player (I've played it twice and experimented in that combat for many minutes).
Didn't Finish
#19 posted by Vondur on 2014/02/22 20:17:25
here's first run demo http://vondur.net/files/vdig7.7z
seems maps with potential, but weak lighting and weak hits for player make it too fristrating/boring with progression. was unable to finish because got totally lost.
i'd continue, but overall darkness in the level makes me not wanna do that, sorry. nice idea with respawning items, was helpful with mandatory rjumping.
Hits For Player = Hints For Player
#20 posted by Vondur on 2014/02/22 20:18:42
meh
What Vondur Said
is pretty much why I also didn't finish the map. It was just too frustrating / confusing / dark. Sorry.
Too Tricky
#22 posted by sock on 2014/02/23 00:45:21
Sorry not my cup of tea, I found it difficult to see anything (pitch black most of the time) in the map and I could not understand where the primary path was suppose to be.
#23 posted by digs on 2014/02/23 01:56:40
1. Probably, the main problem lies in the fact that I left a little pointers. I was hoping that the players will be more likely to look up.
2. On the map is almost no those places that do not make sense
3. There's almost no dark places. I noticed that you're shooting in some places, to illuminate your way. And play with gamma 0.8 and I do not need it. You can set a lower value
4. Psychological moment: map has six secrets. But as there is no counter, many do not even try to be careful.
5. and yes, I assumed that the map will be good for research. But probably she was very large. And it was a major problem for this type of map
Uhm
"There's no almost dark places" - haha.
Will Try It Soon
#25 posted by nitin on 2014/02/23 08:43:04
but on a quickload, its not overly dark at my end.
play with gamma 0.8
MAPS MUST BE DESIGNED FOR GAMMA 1!!!!!!!
Nitin
Between this and the Dark City screenshots, the safe conclusion is that your monitor is pretty badly calibrated.
Gamma 1
#28 posted by digs on 2014/02/23 11:26:17
first time I hear about it ((
Now Then.
#29 posted by Shambler on 2014/02/23 11:36:31
Digs I salute you for trying something different. A bold step and an interesting map. Congrats on doing in a full, well constructed, action-packed map rather than a bland gimmick map.
There's a few obviously great things in this map: A lot of the designs and areas are very good, the detailing and construction is excellent, there's a lot of fun combats and in general it is well balanced and fair, and with 3 major route choices there's plenty of exploration and non-linearity.
The challenge from the RJ progression is interesting. There's a few major factors that make it a challenge:
1. The regular rocket jumps required for progression (14 or 15)
2. The homogenuity of areas making it taxing for players to know where they are and where they have been.
3. The amount of progression paths that are secret-standard hidden.
4. The darkness that exacerbates the challenge in finding the hidden paths.
5. The very hard boss fight.
To treat this map as a pure RJ challenge is to ignore what makes it a challenge so it's worth considering all of those:
1. RJs - I personally did not have a problem with any of these. They were all reasonable height, without any extra movement required in each jump (even the QRJ was reasonable). The health/armour respawns worked well (including the ones before falling down). However it is quite clear that having RJs as essential will greatly reduce the number of players who can play the map.
2. Homogenous areas - I found this a problem as you can see from my demo. Yes all the areas are different but they are not distinctly themed enough to make it clear where you've explored and where you haven't.
3. Hidden progression - again I found this a problem as you can see from my demo, in particular i spent 5-10 minutes wandering around trying to find the 3rd rune button before going on the slim pipe. This is probably not the main problem in itself, it is just made worse by 2. and 4.
4. Very dark - this is a simple fact digs. Compared to the default standard for almost all other Quake maps, this IS too dark. I started on Gamma 0.7 and changed to 0.6, even then there were areas that were very dark and it was too hard to find the progression required.
5. Boss challenge - I think this works okay, I found it okay in the first/second attempt BUT only because I got the Vore onto the platform by random chance. The teleport method you described is NOT known to the player and it should be shown first. Apart from that it is very hard but okay as there is a good warning.
Add all of those together and it's obvious that this could be very frustrating for many players. I enjoyed it personally, because of all the good aspects I mentioned initially, and found aspects 1, 3, and 5 fine, but 2 and 4 were clear problems.
TL,DR: map and combat good, rocket jumps fine, darkness and hard to find areas bad.
One More Thought On RJs.
#30 posted by Shambler on 2014/02/23 11:38:43
Would it be possible to have optional jump pads / wind tunnels in all areas where a rocket jump is required, and have a start area with a button where a player can choose to uncover those?? i.e. "RJ Zone" button versus "Jump Pad" button. Then non-rj players could play through the map and still enjoy the rest of it (once the lighting is fixed of course)
Always A Fan Of Smabler's Later Comments...
#31 posted by distrans on 2014/02/23 14:08:09
...the alternate wind tunnels idea is a good one. I've been heavily criticised for confusing routes (Grendel's Keep) but progression in this one has me flumoxed. After 10 minutes of going over the same ground I go noclip, float up, look up at the rest of the level, and say "Awesome looking place! how do I get there legitimately?"
Shambler
#32 posted by digs on 2014/02/23 15:01:21
Thanks for comment and etc. I thought about it and decided: in the near future given the comments I change the map. But I can not promise air tunnels.
How To....
#33 posted by Shambler on 2014/02/23 20:12:45
For sockbler etc.
http://www.quaketastic.com/files/demos/howtodigs07.zip
I take the "thin pipe", "spawn lift", and "big pipe" routes in that order. The rune buttons can be done in any order, all routes are equally balanced. I then muff the MH secret and die at the boss but who gives a shit.
Please note that I don't go down into the slime. That part is not necessary - it is useful to open up the lift so you can go up the ascending slime pipe with the biosuit, BUT it's just as feasible to go up with 100/100. Obviously it's another fun part of the map so worth doing anyway.
Run Time!
#34 posted by Orbs on 2014/02/23 22:22:54
pretty long one this time, pff digs what a map! First playthrough took me ages! (couldnt find the ledge wich leads to the are with the button wich leads to penta area)
only found three secrets so no clue if this route makes any sense at all:)
http://members.upc.nl/verorber/demos/digs7_ER_orbs.rar
#35 posted by digs on 2014/02/24 04:37:34
Shambler, thanks for demo
Orbs, thanks and cool
#36 posted by Yhe1 on 2014/02/24 05:40:20
Can you guys do a walkthrough of Digs03? I can't figure out that map lol
Otp
#37 posted by nitin on 2014/02/24 05:43:13
well I can see this map fine, keeping in mind it *is* a dark map. I still think those that cant see *anything at all* might have the wrong settings but I will go through calibration again on the weekend.
Yhe1
#38 posted by Shambler on 2014/02/24 10:27:19
Will try, yes.
Tp, Sl, Bp In That Order...
#39 posted by distrans on 2014/02/24 11:56:18
...ok, trying now.
More Light!
#40 posted by ijed on 2014/02/24 12:48:33
I went to max gamma and brightness and still couldn't see anything, so had to go for r_fullbright, which is a shame.
Also played in a b0rky engine so will have to record a demo later on.
Ijed
#41 posted by digs on 2014/02/24 13:15:52
You can wait a few days. I improve a map
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