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Just to clarify, MadFox seems to be using an older QuArK version (4.07 I think) that generates float maps but he still claims to be using the old qbsp256 which absolutely does not support float values in map files.
With this tool combination, he can map off-grid and then the compiler will do the "grid-snapping" due to the accuracy loss. This will actually produce pretty solid maps (without too much clipping errors) but with big visual brush alignment problems. All non-axial planes will "snap" to the nearest integer adjusted position with interesting results The bad thing is that since the maps apparently are made off-grid, it doesn't help to upgrade to compilers that can read float maps. It actually makes things worse by accurately trying to fit together brushes with tiny gaps or overlaps. This will cause major clipping errors and leaks. A difficult situation indeed you made a little while back? it was more or less succesful in converting map which were made in quark407 to a map editable in other software.
i only needed to fix a few dozen brushes (as opposed to hundreds or thousands). would help much in this case, since it really tries to preserve the individual face direction and position when converting from float to integer coordinates in the map file.
Since the brushes/faces are off-grid the only thing that can help is actually what MadFox is already doing; snap to grid either in the compiler (by using an integer-only compiler) or in pre-compiler stage (e.g. using my ConvMap to convert map file to integer format by cutting off the fractional part). There's nothing that I know that can automagically repair the brushes to whatever MadFox wanted them to look like. Except of course an extensive manual brush-aligning editor session Although my broken english is rather queer for a foreigner, I have overcome to an understanding point of what you are talking about.
First, sorry necros, email seems to be an "as if" medium. When it gets lost, only the spam-error will surprise you. And indeed thanks again. The last statement gives me knuckles, but it also reminds me of my poor technical insight. I hardly understand, what you mean with tex-clipping and all. You are right,when you say the maps are box-a-like. In the time I made them (P100-32Mb ram) it was hardly impossible to make the map bigger. I just did not have the knowledge of doing so, and if I did, the programm collapsed. Same for the reason, if I wanted to make the maps better. The count of brushes already used prohibbit me of doing so. And then I also get the feeling I am betrailing my own good purpose.(Although you are right, when you are talking about the standards of nowadays mapping). Looks as if I will stay an "Old School" mapper anyway. Indeed, I use Quark4.07, for its handsome vieuwer. I couldn't handle the one in the later versions. And I am claiming nothing, argue, I just wanted to explain, how hard compiling was in old days. There are maps in this sequel I builded two or three times all over again, because after houres compiling, I received the message "Unexpected error occured" and I was left with a compiled BSP, but no map of it. I use bsp256, because it has a manner to seak for leaks, and it can force brushes which are outlined, back into the grid again. But at the same moment, it turns all entities into functions, so the whole map has to be redrawn again. Thanks for the hint for texbsp. I surely will use that one in the future, as for the better compiler. I devided the two packs of eleven back into four packs of six. So I have to change the ammunition setting, and the monster-count as well.And I am feeling somehow sorry, to do this work on my own. But great to have this assistence and responds! this might be somewhat interesting for the noob mapper/madfox:
http://xen.quakepit.com/tut1.htm Cheers ray, I'd forgotten all about that page :-) Do you have any opinions on that article, madfox? I'd be interested to hear the views of a newer mapper. (It's not totally accurate, I zoomed through the lighting section a bit and the reasoning behind detail sometimes contradicts itself, but no matter.) Necros, you zipped me away with your file.dz
Me so decent to send you the level by email, and now I can go scratching on a side, to evaluate your zipping command.Did not work. Who was argueing about compression programms? I've seen the articel, xen. At least it looks much about the legandary QMAP-site. Wonderfull to get noob after all this time... Xen, try GraveyTrail. .dz is Dzip format, specifically for demo files. they compress about twice as much (the
here's the file in http://www.planetquake.com/necros/temp/krq5demos.zip I found some data-storing on Lycos.
I released the first six maps of Abandoned, so if you have some time, you could try them. I named them dummy.rar Read the text, take only the leftback path in the Chapel! http://members.lycos.nl/portable/dummy.rar Lots of fun Christmass, and give me some support. It seems the data gets blocked.
Once the http//members.lycos.nl/portable appears it gives a delay. If you type dummy.rar behind it, it starts downloading. Can somebody cheque this? problems downloading this, in fact it was a fast and solid link.
I haven't played anything yet, but I already have some suggestions. Please consider using the standard zip format instead of rar. I have absolutely no problems with it, but others might. The size difference is typically very small. Also consider change the name of the pack/directory to something else than "dummy", "temp" etc. Use the real name "The Abandoned" (or a short version thereof). Otherwise some people might not take your work seriously. I clicked on the link and was redirected to
Don't put your personal config.cfg file inside the pak.
And if you absolutely must release a beta start map that is a maze of twisty corridors (all different Which is in the back right corridor from the start position. I exited the first level (skill 0) with 30/103 kills. I killed everything I found and wandered around lost for quite a while. I would guess it's possible to cut off large sections of the map. ;-)
I'll post something more constructive once I've played a bit more. It's far too big and complex. A start map should get straight to the point: Selecting a skill level (which you did well), and then selecting a map to play (which you have messed up.)
For the final release, simplify your layout. Also, those two corridors with the sourceless, very bright lights look ridiculous. On the positive side, some of your corridors, particularly the ones with the demon-head decorations, look very good. They actually achieve id level standard. Try extending that style and level of detail throughout the start map. First let me explain it is a wonder you could download the file, my intentions were just to show something, what has lingered for so long in this toppic.
Glad, because now there is a possbillity to talk about the subject. I had put a readme.txt with it, but maybe you didn't read it. As for the extention. I tried several times to upload a zip file, but it seems only the rar pack came through(?) I admit, the startmap is somehow twisty and strange. As for the fact only one teleporter works to a sequence. But as I got so queer of betatesting, I wondered how other people would relate to it. And as Morfans says: the first map gives 30/130 kills. I don't know what causes this lack of 90 monsters. For now I am just glad I got this part of the pack on the internet. Probably full of small errors, but close to the target I was construckting too. The exit to OnePair gave me a Alloc_hunc error, so I had to change it for a smaller map. Please, give me more advice. I will be glad to change things, but I got so drenched in the beta testing, I have a hard one on keeping an objective perception. On Zevon's last record, there's a line in "Rub Me Raw" that's "... to all you greenhorn chicken hoppers, find yourself a trade, or go back to the chatrooms and fade in the shade."
Just FYI refferring to post #141 I only see names, who seem to want beta-testing....
then this crazy dude wants my radio station favorite.....(?!) Come on, there. Give me sense of purpose. Or should I join Shambler, and admit Quake1 is dead? I'll do it if you like. Upload to alanr643@msn.com. You should probably write up a questionaire of the aspects you are testing for as well.
If you zip it up and send it, I'll do it -- but I don't use the rar format. I have an archive interperter I found on ZDnet but I hate its interface too much to bother reinstalling it.
if I still had the executable archived or not, but apparently the answer is not since I can't find it. So for accuracy sake #154 should read 'I use to have'.
If you knew how many time I spend making & sending this pack to the internet, you wouldn't
wonder if your compression programm is outdated. Zip files were rejected on the ftp, that's why I couldn't use them. So I used winrar. Looks we are talking about beta testing compression files here. :) The interconnection in the map is fun as hell -- though the first time I played it last Sunday, I got really lost because I did not see how the outpost window in one portion connected to a higher area.
by the func_train is wasted in that position unless you throw in a few fights while riding it to heft that sucker into high gear.
Personally I like the tight corridors, though they need some design variation; I'd suggest studying the Quake2 corridors, it should give you an idea how tightly spaced areas can be made to look more decorative and functional. I like the rooms themselves because most are oddly shaped -- interesting how your rooms tend to butt up against one another at odd angles and levels. The best thing about the level is how intricate it is; the lay out surprises the hell out of me after the first time I gave it a go and got lost. BTW -- does the title refer to Leon? If so, he is the real intellectual father of the American Conservative movement -- if you are curious, look up the name James Burnham sometime, and the connections may surprise you. Quit curious.
Since there has been so much time delay, I suppose we are talking about the level Quatrotski. Yes??? If so, I can start re intrepret your answer. For now I am a little entangled by your answer. Quatrotski is the name of a dwarf with spectacles, and has no political meaning afterall. Why do I send Scampie & Necros betalevels, if they can't find the time to even answer? You are quite correct that this is an old school map -- kind of Scourge of Amagon in its visual appeareance, great playing levels whose brushwork was more fuctional than aesthetically appealing compared to Id's original Quake levels.
You can do a few things to make the route a little more identifiable, like the ramped window port I mentioned where you see the base soldiers and a button. I would sugest lowering part of the upper platform so the player notices its purpose right off. I didn't notice it in the editor when I pulled the map up to inspect, but then again I was looking for brush related errors. It may be just me that I didn't see it before playing it a second time so if those guys could weigh in . . . I can't speak for them, but I had a tight schedule last week. You saw me sniping with Wrath (thanks Wrath, that helped me keep alert), but while that was happening I was busy designing a pair of tats which netted me several hundred dollars Saturday. And, though politics can be interesting at times, its ultimately bad for you, and bad for me. I burned out of it back in college. From the unhappy land (for the day :( ) of Carolina. I'm often asked why there is a North and a South Carolina; the split came in colonial times when all the legislative delegates South of the city of Charlotte wanted to pass a law that would allow you to marry your first cousin. Those to the north were steadfast against the idea, and thus there was a split.
Okay, so I steal everything from the Simpsons . . . So sue me; uhm, I didn't mean that Fox! D'oh. I'm wearing my raybans -- and having them on I'm too cool to let anything phaze me. All right, I have them on to hide all the cryin' I did last night. A freakin' out of bonds punt return!! Kasey how could you?
someone should change the topic to "Old Q1SP" because i keep getting fooled into thinking there really is a new release! :P
I don't think the current map is part of MadFox's Gravey Trail release. It is a single map called Quatrotski. He decided to use this post to continue the discussion.
this is the "madfox has something new to say" thread. Whenever he has something new to say, he posts it here, regardless of the subject.
mostly, i find it amusing that the thread is so old. this must be the oldest news thread on func_ still in use, and it probably has good competition in the old qmap for the same title. :P
there are some interesting old flame wars in the archives we can dredge up for a good time. Eh, nah. I'd like to finally get this map finished and move on to other projects.
I would like to thank you all for your patience.
It was februari 2003 I decided to send a pack of 18 Quake1 maps to this section. Then UnderworldFan ak me to wait and make them better, let them beta tested by people on this board and all. Suddenly I came between a bunch of hillirous idiots, who thought it a good job to wrench up this intention. I am quiet sorry. I never knew people could be so hartless to mute once enthousiasme into the shape this toppic has become. People ask which radiostation I like. People decide to use their name as betatester and suddenly I find my posts ruined. It was just a sincear comment to lend you a Quake1 event. But finnally it has become a point of useless cries. I hope I did not hurt anyone, who liked to give comment on my tryings. I wish you a happy birthday Xen, I don't think you ever have wondered that this toppic was about a sequel of 24. So now I am still in beta state Starbuck. I never had expected the func_board could be used to nihiliate someones tryings. But I hope you have a good party of American Football. Thanx to all who gave me good advice, it was worth trying. I think I end this toppic here. Great Fun to you all I thought what you said was a bit odd -- but then I took a look at my last post, and I see what you mean as what I wrote could stand some clarification.
'I'd like to finally get this map finished and move on to other projects.' That was in reference to my turtle map which I have been labouring on for the greater part of a month. The development has been quite slow. The other projects refer to Tronyn's new project which I have a map idea (based upon the ruins of Angkor which I'm impatient with myself to get to). I wasn't refering to Quatrotski which you have my support on as long as you need. All right, let's try it again.
I hope you realize the name of this toppic ought to be - A New Q1 Mod - because it are actually 24 maps. Don't let me be a zombie, and explain I had the intention of letting people beta test these levels on this beautifull board. But before I could start a beta, I was asked for my favorite music station. And yes, I like 9#nails a lot, but I could never promote my radio to make it their favorite tune. So let me just go on, and offer you the second map, as sending it to people and remind them again only leads me for an "Are You Waiting For Christmass?" The second map is Quatrotski, and is packed in the awfull *.rar archive. But as I explained it before above, I won't even argue about it again. I am just a freak with 5Mb Webspace and that's all there is... Have a nice try, and bark up your commands, or just let me woe like an unmortal! http://members.home.nl/gimli/quadr15.rar And don't take the changelevel, because your computer will get haunting for the mod!!! I wouldn't encourage that; new threads are for discussion. Although it would probably be better if he posted this in the Screenshots/Beta thread.
fuck this thread!
ARGH! madfox go awaey to screenshots/beta thread!!! damn you to hell bastard!!!! ...and then you tell me to go to mapping help
don't you see how much you crosstalk eachother? reason why this board is not as beautifull as it could. and Vondur, you may call me that after playing the level It may help the betatesters if you wrote out a questionaire for those who play the levels.
Say, 1) Overall impression? Fun, tedious, or just okay? 2) If you answered tedious, could you specify the areas or encounters that annoyed you? 3) if you found it to be 'just okay' what would you recommend to spice it up? 4) Were the textures correctly used? What did you think about the textures aesthetically speaking? Did they match up well? Did they contribute to the level in terms of mood and did they help make the brush work look convincing? 5) On a technical level did you find any misaligned textures? Or poorly scaled textures? 6) Were the entities set up competently? Any lip over hang in the platforms or doors that should not be there? Monsters facing in the correct directions to notice the player, or are they doing interesting things, like walk patterns? 7) How was the layout? Too simplistic? Overly complicated and fustrating? Or done competently enough to help sustain your interest in the level? This sort of list could be helpfull in pointing out things you may have over looked. You did so excellently I could hardly make a better try. I will be glad if people would react in terms of that seven Notes you just wrote.
If not my intention for making these levels would lie in that way of that treatment. As a matter of fact their just the tryings of how far I could go with the Editor, and not so the perfekt shape they could behave. I am not relativating the great maps one could make, only the almost adventitious way they arise. When I let people betatest them it is more a question if they could follow the path I tried in one of the irrealistic imaginations. And if they answer it will surely be the things they felt most striking. there are a lot of things in them that are just results of crunching with that magic polyhedron. Often there are things that I even can't change,or the compiler would give an error. But in fact every rection is usefull! good points:
-it rocks, it has everything Quake has to offer,loved the tense combat;also the environment is great with the water sections,the platform part, the jumping puzzles,the secrets and and...no boredom here -theres much exploration, and i love that kind of map not so good points:) -there is far too less ammo, especially for the Sg,i dont mind having only the weaker weapons,but atleast enough shells pls ! (played on nightmare) -right at the start and later on there is a mix of base/med enemies, thats always weird, use more fiends then instead :] -the texturing is a bit bland sometimes, but the gameplay is there so personally its ok with me :) Great map Madfox, looking forward to the next one ! Thanks for your answer, I never play Nightmare mode. At least not yet.
May be the reason you run out ammunition. But if I put more ammu in it, there would be to much for the normal Skill settings. If there was a way to put in ammunition, specially for Nightmare, I would do so. The only thing that bothers me in this map, is the fact the respawn of the Shambler on top of the Castle does'n't make it hostile, because the distance is too long. I try to put it closer, but it doesn't work. I never concerned the types of monsters, I just place them. I wonder what you would think of The Orb. It is in the original pak file, still to come. Maybe the textures are flat, I don't know. I just intended to keep the old Thred ones. The ones I see today are so sophisticated, they make me feel Quake2 or further. And my tendings belong to the Antiques. Thanks for your reply, it makes it worthwhile! The only way for me to take out the
shambler was to take the Penta,jump into the water and put all my nails into him,then run around to get more and kill the rest; the lack of ammo made it very tense,was very fun :) Maybe it would be cool to place base enemies only in the basement,it could look as if the humans backtracked themself Its always strange to be attacked by a knight and a grunt at once lol Thanks again ! there is a way a have items only show up in specific skills levels. you use the spawnflags for that, but most editors have checkboxes for that.
The harnesh awakes the Shambler, and so the Squad near the lift makes its turn for the lack of ammunition.
I aint got the spawnflags for Nightmare, although Quake made my worst nightmares come through...even my checkboxes provide only easy, normal and hard. that's becuase there are no spawnflags for Nightmare, that setting only effects monster reactions and such.
Shall I send you maps from my Nightmare
or shall I box my skill settings cheques so no betatesters anymore for post #177
then I will submit a new map! surprised SielWolf, how you managed to download bonus.bsp after I already had changed the file! revieuwed the gameplay and skill settings, and scaled the level up to 3/2.
Maybe someone can look if it was worthwhile... http://members.home.nl/gimli/trail.rar time I play through this map and the basic problem remains; the confusing gameflow. Apart from the beginning, there is no sense of progression, no explanation why you kill monsters, push buttons or open doors (and I don't mean a plot).
There are only a few distinctive areas that you can recognize and see how they relate to each other, everything else is basically a maze of rooms and corridors that are just all too similar. I didn't find the nailgun until the very end, so I had to resort to just SG and GL, which is sufficient but very boring. I couldn't find the gold key without noclip and after that, I couldn't even find my way back to the gold key door, even though I'd passed it before. I can see that you've improved several aspects of the visuals, but the gameflow absolutely kills this map. It's very important to understand that the player does not know the map layout inside and out or what all triggers do beforehand. I had no plan, making this map. It just arise while mapping. I understand your concern for the confusing gameplay. But as I didn't had any tricks to explore the level, you might find it dull to play it.
I can start explaining why you kill monsters, but then I wouldn't have started afterall. True it are just a maze of rooms, but I made it for my fun, not for scoring in the ID-standard collection. I don't know what means SG and GL, but for so far I play Quake standard, without any engines than Telejanos. FitzQuake blew away my selfmade monsters. So I don't get it when you couldn't see the gold key, or found an open door closed. I am willing to change things (skill or gameplay), if you could tell me how. i think what he's saying is the map needs a fairly major rebuild. either that of can it and start fresh, this time with a clear layout in mind.
'I am willing to change things (skill or gameplay), if you could tell me how.'
Study the maps that you find to be the most replayable. Get Quark or a decompiler and get a good look at the layout. Ignore the eyecandy stimuli for a moment and look for the areas in the map you find most engaging. Usually these are places the mapper purposely creates a tense situation for the player to resolve. Figure out how this was accomplished by studying the entities that are grouped together to achieve these effects. A good example and an easy map to decompile is E1M6 in the second large room there is a good deal of entity intereaction. the floor lowers into a ramp beneath you and doors open up slightly above you where Ogres start popping grenades on top forcing you down to where you are in the middle of the Smasher trap. Create simple maps that recreate these situations and then once you know how to do them get creative and make your own variations and original situations. Dont be afraid to include Hipnotic, Rouge or any other Progs.dat with your map even if you don't plan to vary the weapons. monsters or sounds in your map. These Mission Pack progs give you a better variety of entities to tool around with, the mover base ones can greatly ewxpand what you can do in map. Do address the problem AquiRe rightly points out of it lacking a plan. Create hierarchies in your design. This involves weapon placement shotgun --> nailgun --> doublebarrel --> perforator --> grenadelauncher --> rocket launcher --> thunderbolt. You don't have to keep to this order obviously, but when you do vary it up, have a purpose in mind dependent on what you want the player to accomplish. Make a hierarchy of monster encounters. I like to start off with a tense situation to get the player moving, but after that I like to raise the difficulty of combat gradually from each series of encounters. In Quake the usual most logical place for the climatic battles in volves the keys or getting to the gate. After all, those are what the monsters are suppose to be guarding. Be aware of the physical language of the environment. There are several 'signs' put in the texture set. If you mean for the player to fallow a certain path, then use the arrow sign. Also key marking signs for silver and gold help designate those doors or relevant areas. Okay, I think that is enough for now. BTW I submitted my first release of fullscale Quake Single player map a few days ago on fileplanet so you should be able to evaluate the usefullness of my opinions soon enough! That is lot of advice. Thanks for that.
As this is map 19 in range, I have become a little odd. I tried this map for days on skill settings, and I really get "blinded" by my own meanings. As for you, playing it fresh, I understand what you concerns are. I will try to have a look again, but working on 27 maps, and make them intercourse, has blown my attitude into a strange direction. I first thought, I could extend the maps on this board to see how they could be given more tension. Now I notice my mappings have overtaken the idea, to get into a real Quake mission, and I believe this is rather a high card. Because they are still "the diary of a mapper", with all its rights and wrongs. Thanking the "heaven of sparetime". Maybe I should put up the bunch on my homepage, so you can considder what this greenhorn has put himself into. But then also the magic of the unexplored gets lost. he has, but I have gone over the limit.
Here I am with a mission pack of 27 levels. They are not all as good as I wanted, but I begin to feel the delay of two years of intensive working is taking its toll. I tried to put it on my Homepage, but 22.8Mb is just to big. So I'll send it to Underworldfan. There could be done a lot, but don't forget it was just a good joke to make this thing. And if I keep changing things with your good advice (nodoubt!) I'll probably be working for another two years. And I would like to keep a good feeling for it! this is just idle words here, and i don't mean for you to do anything by them, but i think it's safest to start small with first maps. imagine if you had spent 2 years on maybe 4 maps. you would have 4 maps with the detail of all 27 distilled down. i remember my first release was hard for me because i was still learning mapping and i wanted to do so much more. it was originally twice the size but had to be cut down... so maybe your next project should be smaller so you have time to concentrate on the details...
just idle words... but I posted the level for playing, and I could use a good hint to make the gameplay better.
I have recompiled all levels of the Abandon with Arguire's compilers: TxQbsp1.1 - Vis2.29 - Light1.40 & Tyrlight0.94
Some started with the error: leaks, which I could seal after hard reconstructing. Others suddenly started spreading HOM's in such way I couldn't imagine I had ever compiled them right. Three maps I wasn't able to compile because of the new compilers wouldn't clear the leaks. Still don't know how to avoid them, but I was luky to have the compiling dates of the originals, so I could light them with tyrlight. Now I can say I finnished the whole thing, and left a conversion with a plain lightning and compiling, wich is of course much sharper than the original was. See: http://pipeline.fov120.com
status :released Some of the brushes suddenly become invisible but still solid, so I walk on them blindly. Some others, on the other hand, become illusionary but still visible, so I fall through them.
Quite a lot of brushes are misaligned, so various odd ledges and cracks appear, sometimes player even stuck on them. Some water brushes protrude from the walls. There's also some bugs with monster placement - I saw an Orb and an Ogre merged together, and also some Dinosaurs placed below the ground. Some areas are absolutely dark, I think the minimal amount of light should present there. Keep studying... To the moment, I'm very impressed with two maps: start and r3b6.
A strong sense of different reality... P.S. And, of course, teleport brushes should not appear standalone, they need some kind of portals or slipgates, etc. At the time I compiled the maps I only had the compilers, that were available with Thred.
And as I hardly knew what I was doing with the grid settings, I made a lot of errors. The Thread compiler has no floating point(?) compiling base, so it places all brushes back on grid. For these reason a lot of things I saw in the editor appeared otherwise in game. In the end I was already glad all maps were fullvised, although there were severe points. The pak wasn't beta tested, so there can be doubled placed entities. The ammu count on SameOlSjo is too low to survive. In some game engines there were entities that fall through the ground, I didn't test them in all games. I have recompiled half the pak again with the new compilers. Some maps won't compile or only with severe homs which I really concern. Others I have updated with a static camera, so messages are more easy to gain access. r3b6-Ames Room, I made when I tried to reach the so-called mathematical idea of a room with two chairs, that look the same seize, but are not and are placed far from eachother. The startmap is a drawing of my first project drawing of an old medieval chapel. Playing end.bsp from Abandon, I felt a strange feeling of deja vu, I remembered I've already played this map a long time ago...
And recently I found the answer: http://www.primefan.ru/stuff/quake/elden1.zip That's an old map by Ludovic Texier, named EldenCross. I downloaded it about 13 years ago from ftp.cdrom.com (do you remember this server?), as well as some other pretty good old maps like The Epoch Turning or MadHouse: http://www.primefan.ru/stuff/quake/madhouse.zip http://www.primefan.ru/stuff/quake/epoch.zip Madfox, is Ludovic Texier your real name? I am just confused. ...just found an answer in the abandon.txt, where you give acknowledgements to
"Ludovic Texier for my morphing of his terrific EldenCross level" So all the things are clear. Heh, this pack gives me so many surprises! :-) Levelmorpher isn't the end level, but the secret level. I guess you found out , but as there were more people who got stuck in the game I added an overvieuw with all names of the levels.
You can find it here: http://members.home.nl/gimli/Abandon.txt When I made the pak I hadn't internet, just some cd's from the BillBoardService. Some of them had tricks from the QuakeLab which made me decide to build levels around each trick, like exploding walls, real glass, fryer cache, wind tunnels. It was also there where I found the LudovicTexier level of the Elden Cross, and not to forget Liquid Despair. It might sound strange, but on these cd's were also levels from Doom and Duke3D. One of them was wrong labelled, I think it was a Duke3D map. When I tried to open it there was an error saying it was no Dukelevel. After some scratching it appeared to be a Quake level. I have played it, some wide blue level with a strange tower that went down with a big turning round staircase. After all these years I started to believe I just dreamed it, so I started looking without result. Still searchng as I never saw it anywhere. My memory of it is so strong I think I can better make it myself again.
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