the best kind of secret seems to be one where the player notices a potential rocket/nade/slope jump, tries it and is rewarded both for being observant and having the ability to make the jump.

Err, I would disagree completely. Very few maps hide their secrets in areas accessible only via rocket/grenade-jump, and I would say a secret should be accessible in some other way. Rocket jumping and especially grenade jumping are advanced player skills that are used for speedrunning and sequence breaking. They shouldn't be required by any area of your map, including secrets, for at least two reasons:

1) If your map requires specialised/advanced movement skills, you're excluding a large number of players.

2) Because rocket/grenade-jumping are tricks used in sequence-breaking, there is the implicit assumption that the designer would not require them. Hence even players who are able to do these jumps would often refrain from using them when playing through a map, in order to experience the map as intended by the mapper. So someone might spend a lot of time looking for the "correct" way of accessing a secret, despite being able to rocket-jump to it. So if your secrets require rocket/grenade-jumps, you're bound to frustrate/annoy certain players.

The same would mostly apply to slope-jumping, but it's a slighly different animal. On one hand, many players may not even know that slope-jumping is a thing in Quake -- so it's even more "advanced" in a sense -- but on the other hand, it does not damage the player, so it carries less risk than rocket jumping. It is something that may in theory even happen by accident. So you could, if you design your map well, get players to slope-jump even if they never knew if was possible. There are a few maps that do exactly that -- but you really need to know what you're doing as a mapper. I would say that if you're still figuring out good map/gameplay design, refrain from requiring any trick jumps in Q1SP. 

This is what I've been doing, I'm glad you confirmed me what I'm intending to do works. Thanks! 

is it best to make the reward for finding a secret visible to make them start hunting for it? Originally I had the key hidden behind an octagonal panel, and the key could be seen around the edges, but I'm unsure whether it's better to directly signpost secrets like this or just to create interesting areas in the map that prompt investigation, that then leads to finding a secret.

In my conceited opinion, little glimpses of items that are not directly accessible but tease the player are cool, so if you can easily do that in your map, I'd say go for it. It's not crucial, though, so if it would e.g. ruin the aesthetic of the area, there's no need to force it.

The important thing for me as a player, whether or not the secret is "signposted" by a visible item, is that the solution to the secret should make sense, and not be completely random (e.g. a secret door or func_illusionary that is in no way visually differentiated from its surroundings).

interesting areas in the map that prompt investigation, that then leads to finding a secret --> you can't go wrong with this, I think (with or without a teasing item). I personally love these kinds of secrets and am always a little disappointed when I explore around and am not rewarded. I know that some mappers will look at how their beta testers play through their map and which nooks and crannies they tend to discover while exploring the map, and then add secrets there. 

Yeah, I just want to agree wholeheartedly with total_newbie, because this is also a pet peeve of mine.

The overwhelming problem with trick jumps - as total_newbie says - is that more often than not, you can use them to utterly break a map, because map designers typically do not do extensive QA to determine all the ways that rocket/slope/grenade jumps can break the design, so players should assume that if they are trickjumping around, they may be breaking everything anyway, and any hidden areas found may not actually have been intended to be found that way by the designer.

On the other hand, there may be a case for doing it if the mapper specifically states that trickjumping is a valid way to play the map, but you'd have to communicate that to the player clearly somehow, and it will still probably annoy people who aren't the l33t speedrunner type. 

It is good to experiment though, something not so relevant might become relevant if it is expressed in a right way.. maybe making circular shaped pillar "J" and on top of it secret weapon or something. But remember make it possible, that player can jump on top of it without using slope jump skill, but that would be the first possible "easy slope secret" if you're making more maps that would extend that idea further.

I think some player's might try to run against that J-shaped pillar and press jump accidentally at the right moment and angle, and then possible learn that nice trick first time. Make the pillar small that it looks like player could barely jump on top of it, that might strive players most likely jump against it and try running. 

 

Isn't slope jumping in id1, in e4m1? That makes it seem pretty legit. 

I used sky textured doors (or maybe func_walls) to hide monsters up in the sky in Castle of Oblivion. I remember testing it in an early version of Fitzquake and the sky textures didn't animate, but that was fixed in later versions. 

Isn't slope jumping in id1, in e4m1?

I think you're right.

To be honest, I still think requiring trick jumping for secrets is a bad idea, but an even worse idea is me being all preachy about it, so I'm gonna change my advice to "just do whatever you think is cool". 

I absolutely disagree that building maps to facilitate or encourage rocket jumping should be off-limits. In fact it's a pet peeve of *mine* that while rocket jumping is such a well-known, recognized mechanic, there are only a handful of single-player maps that are built with it in mind. Not that I think every map should require it, but just that considering how many maps are out there I think I could use more like digs07.

I agree with Kinn that it would be a good idea to explain in the readme that your map requires rocket jumping, or state that there's a "super secret" that requires a rocket jump to access. It's really unfortunate that, as Kinn states, most mappers seem not to care about this extremely cool mechanic, and it has resulted in players assuming it's only a way to "break" the map.

I do enjoy "breaking" maps with rocket jumps if I see an opportunity, in all honesty, but there is so much potential to make really cool levels built with the skill in mind. Might make a few quick proof-of-concept maps after I finish my QUMP entry. 

The moment you begin building a map where rocket jumping is an intentional means of progression, players will start using rocket jumping as if it was an "allowed" mechanic in maps where it wasn't.

"I can't find any way to get up, guess I need to rocket jump! *breaks progression and gets annoyed at "the map being unfair* "

This isn't me theoretizing either, it's already happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCtyDycIOI&t=36m27s 

I don't think anything in a single player map should require a rocket jump.

I generally build things in a way that it will be obvious to the player when they are not supposed to be able to get somewhere. If they want to ignore that, it's not a problem. No clip is easier though. 

Then I'll be sure to put a message in the readme after where I explain the map requires rocket jumping saying "don't do this on any other map, you filthy cheater," etc. 

Otp, though in that map it wasn't either required, wind pad just wasn't as obvious to the player as it should have been. 

Doesn't matter.

"The way forward is unclear, maybe I need to rocket jump" is not a behavior that should be encouraged. 

I think you can have a puzzle that requires a specific maneuver if you tell the player. It may not work for everyone but a shootable hint along the lines of "The Well of Wishes Awaits in the Crypt of Decay" would be fine by me. And a good example of giving the player positive feedback for figuring a little secret or out. Use the stretched faces behind a blocked off area just as in the id1 Start level

Here are some suggestions:

"A fire at your feet will show you the way."

"A quick blast will lift your spirits."

"Hey dipshit rocket jump up there." 

Just put down some scorch-marks. Sure, quake doesn't have them normally, but when people see a burned texture on the floor, it might give them a hint that "hey, i'm supposed to try something here!"

Worrying about whether or not this sort of thing is a bad thing to teach players is a losing battle. Most people already know about rocket jumping, and although some choose not to use it, there really isn't anything you can do to stop people who want to. People will break your map when they play it if they can, and there really isn't anything you can do about it, except for building it better so that they don't feel the need to. 

Seriously, insisting that incorporating one of the coolest, most iconic unintentional mechanics in a game is off-limits to people making maps for this game *as a hobby* because it *encourages bad behavior* in the playerbase is pretty silly. Like Pritchard said above, its pretty widely known about, and I would add not even hard to learn, pretending it doesn't exist is silly especially given the rich opportunities to make cool shut that exist.

This is way off topic though. 

I tried looking at some source files from maps, but i cant figure it out. Someone please walk me thru the process.

I want to set a skill select area in my map without changing the map. 

As far as I know you have to change or restart the level after the difficulty has been set, because what difficulty it is on (0,1,2,3*) can change which monsters are spawned or not.

*3 is nightmare and normally doesn't change anything from hard but I think there are some hacks to make it behave differently to hard as well... 

Have you considered mapping for something like Q3 or Warsow ****as a hobby****? 

http://i.imgur.com/pEt9VvO.png 

I can't find an exact link for a tutorial for this but I know it involves using runes and an info_player_start2

Take a look at the source for sock's Fallen From Grace:

http://www.simonoc.com/pages/design/sp/fallen.htm

I have not tried this but it's probably fairly simple. 

The issue has been resolved. thanks. 

I justed wanted to fart in here and say that Discord is *amazing* for working on maps with a small team. You can drag and drop pics, demos, map files, wads etc into the chat window and it'll upload them for everyone else with no fuss etc. You can pin useful messages and files for everyone to see. It even has full voice chat if you want to use that. And all from a web interface! (Or an app)

I've been digging it.