 News | Forum | People | FAQ | Links | Search | Register |
Log in |
|
|
I'm making a Q1 episode for speedrunning right now and designing it as fast as I can to avoid getting bogged down in details.
http://www.suspenlute.com/fr3nrun1 The Egyptian map should be done by next weekend. The obtex map is a pain in the ass. :( Yes, in QMe select the triangle tool and right click on the offending triangle to flip the way it faces. I've noticed that a few of your other models have also had this in places, although it's less plain to spot in them.
You although you can do it by right clicking and selecting the option from the menu, I actually meant to tell you the quick way, which is to hold ctrl and left click on the triangle in question. Much faster if you have more than one to do!
Possible I had this error in other models, but the reason was I didn't had your advice to solve it.
Sure it was easier than the vertice error! http://members.home.nl/gimli/bones.mpg Thanks! If you have access to max try using the STL check as well, its not easy to find but it basically finds all lost verticies, backward facing normals and open edges.
I haven't used it since max5 to be honest, but I doubt its been removed. For character models in Quake (ie. models without alpha polys) it was very useful. I've got max, but the program is so huge I never seem to get grip on it. Same as blender. I know both are programs with lots of efforts.
On this moment I can delete the triangles in Qmle, and adding a new one restores the original skin texture. In contrary there are also some that don't. Drawing straight on them also add the texture both on front and backside. I would hate to give the impression that the map is almost done by posting more shots. I do indeed have episodic intentions here, which I'll say more about when I have something to show for it.
The majority of the feedback I have gotten has concerned lighting contrast and texture variation. There are several other wooden plank textures in the RT_arbor set, which will vary up the grey wood, but I have't decided which to use yet. The lighting is only marginally better, but I added subtle color values, which I thought looked different and neat enough to show off some new angles: (taken in darkplaces) http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/8837/dp000000eb6.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6975/dp000002li4.jpg http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9825/dp000003dx6.jpg http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4879/dp000001xl3.jpg http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8640/dp000006nb2.jpg Hate to be the nitpicking one again, but...
#1 Texture alignment on the grey cobblestones #2 Roofs normally look different from the inside. #3 Roof textures clipped off at 45 degrees. I guess the answer to #2 is to put some wooden beams on the inside of the roofs. The answer to #3 is: Don't build this style of roof then. I've had the same problem in another map. Hrimfaxi's new map has the same issue IIRC although it's less obvious. Look at some real roofs, those seams are always covered up there. Another concern, which is either very big or very small, depending on perspective, is: It doesn't resemble Quake anymore. :-) Also, it looks very much like a facade. If those windows were _real_ windows, that would be something else. It always bugged me in Thief that I would see the lit windows and hear people talking and laughing, but could never go inside and see them. It felt like a fake, which is what it was. Painted-on windows are problematic. Unless they are breakables with rooms behind them. Also, windows are normally set back into the wall a bit. Try using some more and different kinds of chimneys? #2 Roofs normally look different from the inside.
Well yeah, they don't have shingles! Try replacing the inside shingle textures with a wood planks texture. That kind of critical feedback is exactly what I need to hear, as it's really hard to stay objective after staring at my own work for hours upon hours. I'll address them one by one.
1: That cobblestone texture simply does not align well, unless I changed the width of the streets, which I am loathe to do at this point. I may conceivably change it, though most other cobblestone textures I have seen are just as non-directional. 2: I agree, the roof's interior should be flat wood planks or somesuch. I've changed this in some places, but not in the area I took that shot in. 3: Roofs at 45 degrees, I assume you are referring to http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8640/dp000006nb2.jpg ? This can be rectified with clever stretching, though I don't think you'd notice it in game as much, as you would be seeing the roofs from street level most of the time. Regarding the windows... I can assure you that you can, in fact, go inside all of the buildings. They are lit with a point light of delay 2 (1/x^2 falloff), light 32 or 23 (depending on size of the window) right in front of the window. In other Nehahra engines, this looked fine, but the overbright gamma of darkplaces oversaturates the window and makes it look too bright, even though the light is not traveling too far. For certain windows where the light ought to travel farther and spill out into the street, I intend to try delay 1, 1/x falloff, though I haven't done so yet. The window frames, and the wood "X" frames, used to be made from individual brushes. The X frame prefabs were 11 brushes each. Realizing this was insanity, I made up flat textures in photoshop and reduced my brushcount by at least 1000. Do you mean the windows should be inset on the inside or outside? Given the open nature of this map, I'm trying to keep surfaces flat where possible. In certain places where gameplay dictates, I do intend to make the windows transparent and breakable, but it's not realistic to have every one be like that. I like the idea of chimneys for atmosphere and realism, I'll look into where some more would look good. Do you see the one here? http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6975/dp000002li4.jpg The misc_smokemaker trails are still moving a bit fast to be realistic, but they are there. I'm aware it's not your typical quake scene, I've never been big into blood and spikes style maps myself, I think it will become appropriate in context. Don't "hate" To Nitpick
Really? Oh ok then. Those wood textures are shit. They're horrible. The graininess and contrast on them is ugly on its own, but is all the worse because the material supposedly being represented is wood grain. They look like they were molested by an Unsharp Mask filter. Twice. What stuns me is they are - I assume - from a professional source. Ditch them if you actually want your map to look like a nocturnal medieval townscape by firelight instead of the inside of my cooker. HTH Yes, that's what I was referring to. And you're right that they will be viewed from floor angle. But it might still be easy to fix if you devise some kind of clever "cover-up."
I meant that the windows should be inset on the outside with little ledges below them. Unfortunately I'm missing the English words here just as I was missing "shingles"... Window sills? As it is, the scenery looks about as much like a medieval European city as I'm aware of the brushcount implications etc. and what you say is perfectly understandable. Kell: The textures are by Undule, from an unfinished Unreal total conversion project IIRC (Real Tournament = RT?). Same source as "Day of the Lords". I agree they look a bit unrealistic here. I also agree that the wood textures in Knave are damn good (and underused) ;-) That's just empty theory though because the author of course decides these things. ^^ RT_* are very good for stone and stuff like doors though. Chimneys: I was thinking more of the "industrial" English ones. You have a "brick" on the roof and several pipes coming from it in a row. Typically right on top of the house. Not medieval but atmospheric. I would suggest breaking up the facades a bit (portals? arcades? ever see medieval entrances?), but your project is already hitting all sorts of boundaries. Stairs. Old towns are chock-full of different kinds of stairways, steep ramps and *very narrow* passages between houses.
If you're going Lovecraftian, check out slanted stairs. And even cobblestone roads are in reality very uneven, in fact they are little mountain ranges. Carriages and weak underground have made them like this. Don't be afraid to make the roads 3D, it's realistic. Higher in the middle with parallel dents in them and water in the dents. You can also slant them in parallel to the houses. Another typical thing is that the houses themselves are asymmetrical because part of them has sagged away. The main horizontal support beams on old European houses will always be either slanted or slightly U-shaped, or both. Really. Sometimes also the whole house is A-shaped a bit. Slanted walls and floors! There will be no 90 degree angles. And around, behind and between the houses will be wooden shacks and stables. And the streets will be FILTHY. I'm talking little pools here. You know in Rome they had these treadstones, so people could cross the street without getting really dirty feet. There will be unused spaces between houses, too. And burned down houses. The last war can't be long ago. And empty dark windows. Also, space between buildings will probably be either bigger or really narrow (a man's width.) -> Geometry looks much less neat than in your shots. There will be no 90 degree angles.
All of what you say is true, but QBSP isn't going to like that a bit :) QBSP isn't going to like that a bit :)
Yeah, I was being extreme. It would have to be translated to the game of course. Like just using some slanted walls and ceilings, and a malformed house or two, symbolically so to speak, to liven it up. I meant to create a pile of material that he could just use where he wants, not copy an original to a T. It's clear. this is quake! No unrealistic expectations... For example you probably can't do that much with the ground/roads or the player will get stuck easily with the qbsp errors in the hull generation. But it could be cool to try?
|
|
| You must be logged in to post in this thread. |
|
| Website copyright © 2002-2024 John Fitzgibbons. All posts are copyright their respective authors. |