|Posted by quakeulf on 2017/08/07 13:46:47|
|When I started mapping for Quake 2 last year it was on the base of bingeplaying a whole shitload of Quake 2-maps that I've got from over the internet after I finally got to play through the two mission packs in 2015. I was at that point unaware of the scene for making maps for Quake 2.
So one year later, where's everyone? Quake has a renaissance in singleplayer-content but Quake 2 is just... me and one other guy I don't even know exists (yes, I'm calling you out, Citadel-guy).
I want to make sure that for its 20th anniversary I'll have something worth playing. However, due to being able to find so little for this game on the internet that I can use quickly (I've scrapped a lot of ideas already due to not having the time to edit the source code to get all the unused animations for Strogg in or the items/weapons, like being able to start with no weapon at all and have to pick up the blaster), I've decided that I am going to keep it as vaniller as possible and use only what's possible to do in a v.320 install fresh from your CD or Steam.
I hope I can get more people in on making some kwolitee content for this game in time for its anniversary. There's already a $10000 tournament announced for it at The Con Of Quake this year, but we can do better!
Not Sure Dude
Did follow the Q2 scene quite avidly for a few years, but it didn't hold my attention like Quake did. Still a great game but maybe Quake is more distinctive and the custom content especially so.
But Gameplay Mechanics...!
Quake 2 has a lot of nice gameplay mechanics. You can do a lot more with the environment and you get coloured(!) lighting. I've found creating singleplayer-content for Quake 2 more fun than for Quake because you can do so much, like almost recreate Half-Life in it or even newer games due to its versatility. Everything that's not used to block leaks can be destructible, and there's simple physics as well so you can fake destruction with consequences.
I know multiplayer Quake 2 is still alive to this day and I've played some too at the Tastyspleens, but I think it's time to bring singleplayer back.
And Count Macanah In,
as he released a pack of sp maps recently on Quake2cafe and in Tastyspleen.
Also Giftmatcher as he released in 2016 a pack of 4 singleplayer maps. He is lately with Quake but maybe has something on the works for Quake 2 too.
And maybe you count Musashi too, its has been several years since he released his last one but maybe he is still at it. http://www.celephais.net/board/view_thread.php?id=60973
And answering your question. I have a pack of singleplayer maps that i found, ordered by year and the numbers are ...
1998 - 88
1999 - 34
2000 - 17
2001 - 5
So if we consider this to be the majority of sp maps here, its safe to assume that there was never much to begin with and that it withered quickly and died when Yhe1 said.
Quake 2 is repetitive af...
Base, base, base..., base-base... basebasebase, base...
base... base... base...
base, base, base,
base! base? base...
You BASEically have one theme, which gets boring after 20 maps.
It would be cool to see some bigger mod for Quake2, with more varied enemies and some fresh texture set.
Recreate Half-Life In It Or Even Newer Games.
And for that reason, I'm out.
It died when Ten Four stopped being updated. At least for me. The forums kept going but it looks like the entire site is gone now.
Q2 does have far too much base though.
Cocerello: if that's all you've got, you're missing some. I've got about 170 releases saved. + 7 of my own. The only thing I've got for Q2 in the last 4 years is older.zip and I'm yet to play it. So if guys like Macanah, Giftmatcher, Musashi all have releases that are good then they may want to work on their marketing.
Plus 5 mission packs (Xaero, Juggernaut, Oblivion, Reckoning and Ground Zero).
So maybe there's about 200 decent worth-playing releases? Maybe about 1/3 of what Quake has.
I have more (60 or so more), plus a pack of 1 Gbyte of random sp or mp maps that i haven't checked what it has in, but that other pack i talked about in #5 has them ordered by year making easy to check for Quakeulf's question, and seems to have (144) most of the releases i have.
I suppose that i am missing some, but i don't worry much about, there is going to be always several missing and i don't aim to have a collection of them. I would if Quaddicted had them like it has for Quake, to complete the web, but i know that Spirit has already at least both big packs i have.
Quakeulf: most of what can be done in Quake 2 can be done in Quake nowadays and sometimes more with the new compilers, tools and Quoth, and that makes harder to get more people onto Quake 2 instead that onto Quake mapping.
But i value positively Quake 2, for playing or for multiplayer mapping mainly, like the weapons and items who are miles away from Quake's simple and repetitive ones.
My Only Restraint Is Vaniller
That Quake is now more advanced than Quake 2 only means the game isn't Quake anymore, except for in name and use of some entities and textures.
When using newer clients to workaround the original's limitations you are effectively creating a new version of the game that's gradually shifting in shape away from its origin. That there are maps out there that won't work unless you play them in a non-id client is proof of that. That they also have coloured lighting and fog-effects with custom interactions further makes a case for this. There is nothing bad about this, it's just that it's technically advanced beyond Quake because you need a custom solution to make it work.
I also used to have a lot of Quake 2-content (mostly multiplayer though), and SPoG's Quake 2 SP-map is what got me into making maps for Quake 2 in the first place.
I have tried to reach out to more mappers for Quake 2 on the Quake 2 Café. Hopefully more will show up.
Quakeroulf, Is It?
Fog is the new pipes
Is quake 2 easy to modify, when it comes to monster behavior? One of reasons why I never finished maps for q2 was because of gameplay, ai was weird and it didn't feel as challenging or fun to fight against them than in doom or quake1.
The Monster Behaviour
Well, there is a bit you can do with the Strogg:
The reason why it can feel a little unchallenging is that at some point in the game you get the power armour and it makes you almost invincible. (Then again attempt the game on nightmare/hard+ difficulty and you will struggle a bit.) There's also the fact that some Strogg are a little too slow and they get stuck easily. However, this can be solved by proper placement to accomodate their shortcomings.
Whoever says Quake 2 is repetitive "base, base, base" hasn't paid attention or has bad memory. There are nine different units with completely different texture themes that make for varied environments. There's mine, palace, sewer, power, etc.
Classic Quake on the other hand can be split into two themes: base and Gothic. I'd argue that Quake 2 is a lot more varied and it's a shame that more SPQ2 maps aren't being made for it.
I can also argue for the fact that vaniller Quake 2 allows for a lot more variety in styles than Quake does. However, with outside development anything can be possible.
Forgot to mention space levels too.
But yes, the problem isn't that Quake 2 itself doesn't offer enough variety - the problem is that the majority of custom single player levels made for the game are base-themed. I imagine it's because the easiest to work with, as the textures for some of the other themes are intended to be used in conjunction with more complex brush work.
There are nine different units with completely different texture themes that make for varied environments. There's mine, palace, sewer, power, etc.
But it's still base, base, base...
Someone had nice idea to make base but in a jungle, that could be something different.
Huge trees, roots coming into industrial complex, maybe some swamp and of course a little bit of base :D
I would like to map and play more Quake 2, but the fact that the files are a mess, as even the textures are individual files, and its hard to keep track of things and get assets as everything is a mixed random mess of files, so i lose more and more interest, and if mapping I keep it to only to the vanillaest possible.
I miss what we have on Quake, that most maps are just a .bsp and sometimes a .lit file too, and to get a texture pack is very easy in contrast to Quake 2, as they are barely shared, and on maps there are bits here and there, made more difficult to get and complete the pack as there are people that name the folders of the textures they used of a pack differently from others, so i have to search, check and join them like a puzzle for an hour or more just to get a texture pack.
Classic Quake on the other hand can be split into two themes: base and Gothic
That would be Quake 3 there, as Quake has no gothic theme.
Also, that Quake themes are base, medieval, wizard and runic/metal, and so were split into 4 wads by id.
That's like saying New York City and Prague are the same since they're both still cities, cities, cities.
exactly, Quake has more than one setting. Medieval, runic, base etc
You might not get bored of playing in cities because of all the detail cities have but the strogg BASE theme sure af does not have the same variety as a human city :P
If you guys really want to have quake2 maps, just go map - there is easy tools nowadays.
I Still Use GTKRadiant
And I have no problem mapping for Quake 2.
Observe this guide:
There are no excuses other than "I have no interest in it".
If you guys really want to have quake2 maps, just go map
But maybe introduce some new texture sets (?)
Quake 2 Is A Tough Sell For Me
There are a lot of things to like about Quake 2 from a mapping perspective. I actually worked on Zaero with Team Evolve so I have played a ton of the game. I played a bunch of DM and made a few lame box maps for Q2 as well.
But for me it's the physics and speed of the game I dislike. I just doesn't feel right to me. It feels loose and rubbery. Once Q3Test came out I literally never touched Quake2 again until last year when doing some research. The game just didn't grab me like Q1 and Q3.
So as far as mapping, I think the coolest thing about Q2 mapping is you can make an invisible brush emit light, making it much easier to light large areas. Also 16 bit color pallette? I think - right? I assume we can do this stuff now in Quake with Tyrutils-ericw.
Go map. There's nothing wrong with loving Quake 2!
Quake's medieval and wizard themes are pretty much indistinct; they can be categorized together.
Quake's metal theme is runic and relies heavily on iron; it could also be described as "iron age runic".
And the official mission packs introduced a notable set of textures inspired by antique Egyptian/Mayan/Greek civilizations.
So, Q1 has:
Iron age runic,
Base & iron age runic are about materials, while medieval and ancient civilizations are about civilizations. Materials-based themes are good for gimmicks, while civilizations-based themes are good for atmosphere.
Also, Quake alternates its themes a lot. The start map mixes everything, then the episodes comes with base, medieval, runic, base, medieval, base, runic, base, medieval, and a mix of medieval with runic. This helps to keep things fresh, specially in the first episode.
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