I don't think that's so necessary, tbh. You only add it to your config once. 

No engine can correct this progs bug, it doesn't even care what's dead or not. And the engine signon buffer limitation has nothing to do with it either, you can't load the map if that's exceeded. 

no idear RickyT23 they are all red :\ going to doctor tonight... to see what it is! the pharmacy gave me some stuff but since is not working properly will go to doctor today 

This is really a improvement over your last map.
Architecture was good and strong, really nice brushwork. Very good use of textures and good ligtning.

Played it on hard and found it a bit unballanced, had to godmode near the end. 8-)
Had some wrong monstercount as well, but now we know why! 8-)

Hope to see some maps from you that isn't a base map but medieval or runic.

Keep them coming! 

I dunno guys, I'm not much on readme's but it was pretty plain - put the maps in your quoth directory and use fitzquake.

Great map. Damm it oozed with eye candy. Everything was neat and tidy. Even the boxes looked good. I guess I didn't play your first map or don't remember it but I try to play them all.
When I saw big map, 350 monsters, I didn't think I would like it. I was wrong. Congrats 

too tired to say much... nice work. this is a solid release. I was hurt a little bit by not finding the plasma gun until later exploration. I guess this was my own fault for not trying all routes, though. 

As I betatested this level I was rather quick impressed by the precious texture and brush work. I was amazed by the large scale the map had, as well as the straight lined subdiveded parts. The way the game enfolds is good, small amounts of monsters in cascade with some though hard fights.

The way you constructed the two marine bases in each other with the cave part was something that impressed me.
The feeling of a once excisting mine bridge, caught in a missile debree.
Really liked the hydraulic lightning session.

And again... not finished playing this release,
but sureley a winner to me. 

I've experimented lately with an old botcam feature called Kascam, e.g. included in the Omicron bots. The botcam will automatically produce a "recammed" version if you use it for recording demos. I've now made a demo of this map on Hard in god mode, with Kascam operating the camera: http://user.tninet.se/~xir870k/thehand_kascam.7z .

The demo is in std Q1 protocol 15 format, but due to an oversight of mine it requires 4096 edicts support, which not all engines have. Any of my engines, Fitz (if you up the edict limit), DP and possibly others will do, but e.g. JoeQ won't (limited to 2048). Sorry about this.

You'll first see the Kascam client idling for a while, waiting for me to come in and then the action should begin. The intention of the demo is to show off the Kascam feature in this big and monster dense map. I hope you'll like it! 

... and I liked it a lot.

I will not list what others said, as I agree with them: globally it is visible you made a lot of effort on brushwork. I think also gameplay could have been refined, it is quite hard sometimes to survive to spawning hordes, except if you know what will happen.. Nothing special concerning lightning effects..

Anyway, I had a good moment of fun, and I will look forward your next release ;)

Keep it up !! 

I played it with the telejano engine and quoth mod. It played perfectly with no bugs or problems. I played on the hardest level and saved frequently. It was a BLAST. I loved it from the opening and didn't want it to end.
I prefer base maps, lots of secrets and lots of monsters. This map delivered. Cannot wait to play your next(hopefully, another base map please) map.
Slaine 

This map is so good, how are you ever going to top it?

I played this on hard again, but this time binding impulse 250 to 9 ;)

It was hard. But I like hard maps as hard. Very challenging, barely managed.

The play-testing and feedback from multiple beta-testers definitely shows.

Back in 2005 when Quoth first game out, I didn't like it at first. Possibly because I didn't have a familiarity with it or possibly because some of the earlier Quoth maps felt like they used Quoth characters for the sake of using them.

But the last several Quoth maps have been fantastic. Maybe every Quoth map released in 2007. The extra characters, powerups and functions add so much depth and diversity to maps and it sure beats seeing out-of-place Ogres in base maps like old school maps use. 

I quite liked the last one, but this one is markedly better in pretty much every area. No more confusion as to where to go, much more balanced gameplay thats a blast and very nice visuals, especially the texturing.

Lighting was perhaps the only area which could have been slightly better, although I didnt play with the lit file, just regular quake but it didnt quite suit the texturing in some spots.

Otherwise, great stuff. Keep it up. 

ok, finally had time to play properly!!! still think in hard is to hard!!! have a lot of fucking boring fights to many hard guys in same place, far away boring fights:\ always spawning stuff :\ errr hated!!!

Normal is more acceptable but still boring

Brushwork is outstanding!!! love it a lot!!!

Note! When i beta tested just had a version... so after silver key door didn�t had that part...

So my final note is brushwork is really amazing 9/10!!!

But game play still crappie in my opinion... spamming from behind with no warnings? errr this is in underground with kell textures!!! The vore... spawn behind us... man please put some messages... fucking unfair! I still hate your game play on hard... sorry fill me up with lots of frustration!

gameplay 5/10

anyway thks for this lovely map 

Nice map. Thanks. This is the most i've enjoyed a quoth map.. It was great finding the secret at the end and launching down on the two bosses (you can do some damage to those things up close with the shovel, too!). Must have re-played it that scene a dozen times on normal and hard..

The long corridor before the end was pretty tough.. probably a dozen goes. It's _alwyas_ cool finding cave levels beneath bases. Awesome when you blow up the entrance. I don't know how gameplay would be without finding the plasma gun straight away (and still hate looking at that penis model. Has anyone redone it?)

Taking home aguiRe's kascam demos to try out. 

hi, where do I find golden key please? somewhere in the underground room with ceiling laser-shooters? I gave up searching after 15 minutes... Good to have so many plasma clips, I didnt have to save my ammo. Most of the corridors and rooms look superBly. 

When you make your way back out of the underground area and re-enter the part of the map at the top of the large outside staircase, procede past the top of the stairs round to the room where you originally found the silver key. Here a button has been uncovered. Press the button to extend the bridge over to the Gold Key Room. Carry on through the Silver Key Room, out the door you should be in the area where you found the Nailgun, you can either turn right or cross the room to the Gold Key Door. Turn right, then right again, onto the area where the first enforcer was stood of the whole level! You should now see a fully extended bridge allowing you to cross to the Gold Key Room Area - shoot soldiers, go down lift, empty the 'Arena' area of monsters - this unlocks a lift which takes you up to the Gold Key Room - Key is at the top of this lift... 

Found that already, thanks for description though. Must have missed the button in Silver Key Room during my first attempt to beat your level. The underground complex near the end (Arena area as you call it) is brilliant and tough to survive, now I know I HAVE TO save my plasma ammo clips. It was fun to empty your level :). I like the way Quoth monsters were included. Plus you got one bonus point from me for the titlename. 

RickyT23 dont be mad with me ;) is just my opinion... maby i�m a fucking noob... but i think you use to many heavy monsters that slow the gameplay a lot!!! i use to do that also... but in brushwork i�m miles from you... keep it up! one of these days i might finish on hard... but honestly i get borred after a wile :( 

I played it today and it's really impressive and I enjoyed it a lot, though it was a bit hard on skill2 (I died several times). A lot better than sick base. 

Beat that!

http://shub-hub.com/files/demos_singleplayer/rickyt23nhhand.dz 

Nightmare is skill 2 or 3 please? 100% kills or secrets? How many secrets? 

Is skill 3 and a 100% run means all secrets found and monsters killed. 

I finished on Hard skill and this is a meaty romp. It's a struggle for the first fifth or so and then feels more balanced as weapons are gathered and supplies appear in greater supply.

This huge map really feels like Quake 2 and not SPQ1 in looks and gameplay. That's good BTW. Coloured lights are appropriate and the map looks good with a unique style. It's quality. I only thought the one lava tex deep below was ugly and I spotted a few minor misalignments but nothing to detract from enjoying this sprawling - multi-chaptered level. There were some cool light FX near the underground generator. The caves were well built too.

I found all 6 secrets on my own but about 4 were found after I cleared the map - very nice variety and all were fair and satisfying to find in such a big map.

Nice map - hoping to play more. 

Finally got around to playing this properly in Quoth. Skill 2, knew the map layout, and had got 1/2 way through on Quoth previously.

Pretty tough map all the way I found. Not unbalanced but just tough. Got me thinking about gameplay a bit, because sometimes it felt like it was straying from the realms of fun into the realms of gruelling. Like Warpspasm it has sodding loads of monsters, although there's never too much at any one point. The sheer numbers might be part of the issue, it's a lot of gameplay to get through in one go.

I did have issues with ammo (given I knew what was coming up, also knew the Quad and nail runs, and am fairly cautious, I think it might be a fair point...). Just felt - even towards the end - that I often got too much into the red, especially in the weaker ammos. Which never feels that encouraging. Partly I think this is due to the number of "ammo-sink" Quoth monsters (rocketeers - quite a few shells for little reward; grenade enforcers - need to take em down from a distance; drones - suck up a LOT of ammo with their dodging; vorelings - easy to waste stuff on).

Thing is, in a map this size, when you end up getting the more hardcore weapons (SNG, RL, anything cells), chucking in more ammo in general can make it too easy due to the ease of use of heavy weapons. Although in this map, I was often using plasma because I'd run out of shells!!

So I thought of two options that would have helped the ammo situation:

Firstly have a few more "easier" secrets with just standard supplies in. Thus allowing a struggling player to stop, work back and hopefully find something to help out, but also allowing others to blast through.

Secondly have additional "innappropriate" ammo supplies next to some combats. For example, throw in some rockets near a load of grunts - the player might be tempted to make that combat easier but will lose the ammo drops. Or shells next to Vores, giving the choice of a harder combat or an easier one. Hmmm I'm not explaining it so well. I guess I'm thinking of a situation where there is more ammo around, but it's not just shells (useful to bulk supplies without making things too easy, but boring!!), but nor is it so the player can rely on the more powerful weapons...


BTW, it was a good map. Impressive all round. And great having the underground bit in, well themed. I think some areas could do with more details though, to match the rest. 

Quoth monsters in general are tougher health-wise than the standards, the only exception being Drole - Shambler.

It's the sort of thing that couldn't be modified (in Quoth2, say) because it'd unbalance too many existing maps.

But consider the Dog compared to the Voreling and the fact that the Voreling has its additional hiding on the ceiling behavior. They're both fun to kill but if you'd never played the game before and came up against one and then the other the difference in balance would be much more obvious than to a veteran Quaker.