Reflecting back on my previous work I am wondering if one of my main problems is that I nearly always end up creating gameplay around existing map layout and design features instead of doing it the other way around. It's very easy to get caught up in long flow of brain-to-editor creativity process and design a lot of stuff which does look good but then you try building some gameplay around the things you've built and you realize it's very clunky and end up having to rework the layout and visual features A LOT (often having to throw away and completely rework large chunks) until you are satisfied with both.

This is actually even more true for engines which have editors with proper lighting preview (read: UnrealED) because you don't feel the pressure to test the level inside the game too often. Actually, I just realised that my UT3DM map with 35+ different saves... I haven't yet launched it inside the game even once, I only used the "Play the map from here" feature of the editor which lets you run/jump around the map. This actually makes me quite scared of how many things might be out of whack "in reality" and will have to be reworked because I've neglected proper in-game testing. 

"Reflecting back on my previous work I am wondering if one of my main problems is that I nearly always end up creating gameplay around existing map layout and design features instead of doing it the other way around. "

Good point. I suffer from this as well. I don't dream up combat scenarios and then build the level around them - I fit the combat into the map after I build it. That always felt more natural to me but maybe I should consider at least planning out a few show piece fights and working the geometry to fit them ahead of time... 

mix both together. Like build the map using brushwork first but as you are building it think of gameplay scenarious for each area, like "Shambler ambush would be good here" or "there will be a couple of ogres up there, but as the player notices them a bunch of knights will come out of here" or "this would be a great room for a vore attack" or "I could really envisage the player getting chased back out by a hoard of feinds here, that would look cool" kindofthing. 

I think I'm gonna give this a try this weekend. 5-7 hours of mapping, we'll see how it goes. Anyone want to suggest a theme/texture set? 

koohoo? it's a great set and rarely used. quite a lot of variety, while still staying very green. :P

only thing it lacks is terrain textures (the rocks and stuff in there aren't made for large swathes or terrain) but that's easily remedied.

incidentally, i really should look into my own mapping process. some good stuff in here. 

Im gonna use obtex2.wad, unless anyone wants to throw in a better suggestion? And it might be Quoth. 

I could do a non-base map :O
Koohoo could be fun.... Or Egyptian.
Or eldar type thing. I dunno. I'll sleep on it

(yawn) 

'mix a bunch of random stock quake textures and pull off a badass texture mix'... :P 

I actually love the koohoo textures. I always try to use them to make a map but it ends up failing each and every time. :( 

agreed.

I think it would be a beautiful fit for you with your style Zwiffle...

And I'd love it if Ricky did a Koohoo...

Or maybe like a jjspq3 style - clockwork kingpin style. not quite base but sort of. 

I've got/had around twenty scraps of Koohoo stuff - it'd be great to see a turtlemap event. 

Is there an actual Koohoo WAD for download somewhere? 

:D
http://www.quaketastic.com/upload/files/texture_wads/KOOHOO1.WAD 

koohoo is a heretic2 wad? 

I just opened koohoo.bsp in texmex and that's what I used. 

BSP2WAD on koohoo, koohend and start.bps, and compiled all of the textures into one wad using Wally. :S 

Thanks! 

The Castle of Koohoo. One of the best short episodes ever made (skill select, main map, boss map).

I'd reccomend 'dark' texture set for the natural tex's though, always found them to fit better. Black stone with glowing moss and a decent mossy floor tex. 

One's in there as 0text_59. 

that textire set is from heretic-2, iirc sm32 - shut up RPG, also was using the same set 

http://wantonhubris.com/blog/2009/11/08/blueprint-experiment-day-3/ 

last time I downloaded the heretic2 wad, it was in the wrong palette - anyone else finding the same thing? as a former heretic 2 mapper there's a ton of great stuff in there beyond the Andoria set that Vondur used. 

http://www.quaddicted.com/wads/htic2.zip

And yeah, lots of great stuff in there. 

Well, for me, fastest way to make a make is to invent general style. Usually certain style has number of visual elements that repeat themselves through the level, that helps to make some kind of prefabs (meshes in nextgen) and use it all over the map. Also, basic mockup is the key.

1. you invent style
2. make mockup based on the style and gameplay
3. polish mockup till u're satisfied
4. make properly detailed map based on mockup

All in all u have to have one single image of your future level in your head. This image must contain main concept of the level as from gameplay as from visual pov. This will not let you to get drown in the swamp of ideas that will clogg your map and slow down the development. Get rid of everything that spoils the original style and keep this style.

my 0.02 roubles 

to make a make = to make a map

(i'm too old for these forums)