Personally I don't think it's too hard, but just has too few resources. But the idea is to guide the player from start to finish, almost holding thier hand, (but so that they don't know it) and making them feel like they've achieved something and managed to beat you.

If you want to kill the player you can make a fullbright box and spawn thirty shamblers on map load, then release.

Ideally you want the player to drop to 10 health two or three times in the level and hover between 30 - 70 for the rest of it - those three times being the highpoint ambushes of the map that the player only just survives.

In order to make the map as acessable to the maximum number of player skill levels ideally each difficulty level should be tweaked to guide a player of that caliber through the map with around 1 death on easy for a bad player 1-2 or normal for an average player and 3-5 for a good player on hard / NM.

Mind, that's just my opinion, and something I didn't follow too closely whilst making my pack. 

I think thats a good way of looking at it, a good sort of model to aim for, I like the anallagy of holding the players hand without them thinking it. It can be hard to judge tho.

I didn't want to kill the player (well, maybe just a little bit ;), more just to make them feel really challenged and never stop shooting/moving, which to an extent I feel I achieved. I liked the idea of having a massive wide open space to run around in, and then being chucked into a small space with lots of enemies allreally close up, chaustrophobic quick draw action. It's a real challenge. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the sense of achievement!

If people wanna have fun then PLAY IT ON NORMAL

Its like those rubix cubes. I hate them because they're too hard.

(wimps) 

so true^
games are all about fun. this map is not. its frustrating 

Lunaran "There's nothing wrong with hard and there's nothing wrong with 270 monsters in and of itself, but you're just too rough on the player. You're not trying to beat him, you're trying to make him have fun." 

when you pass the SK door, things get better. 

.. if you play it in God mode... though

Well, it mainly depends of the player skill, and not the chosen skill for playing... and so it depends of of your own skill as well.. but as you know the map, you are not the best person to judge of the "real" difficulty level of the map...
Maybe more beta testers, and more beta test sessions would have helped...

OTOH, the map was quite enjoyable visually: all is not perfect, but there were few crappy areas... my personnal taste... Lightning could have been better as well...
Well, as you are "starting" in mapping, I hope to see more and better map from you: keep it up, you are on the right way ;) 

I tried it on Normal and had no fun. Didn't proceed further than the first tower from where I had no idea how to proceed (take the obvious shortcut or not) and died soon. But then I hate base maps anyways. And the map itself made me wanna cry because of the very flawed design and poly-waste. For example why did you make those spheres hollow?

This map clearly shows why you should do proper beta-testing. Also why you should map with Quake's limits in mind. And not to forget the many maps people simply put to their scrap folder as not worthy releasing. This sounds quite harsh and mean but I am under the impression that everyone wants to release high quality here.

The map has some nice brushwork though.

Shambler, I want you ranting! 

by all means keep mapping however you want, but if your only response to players not liking your map is "play better" then I shan't be playing the next one at all. 

Honestly, I think that different people will always have different opinions of maps, if I were to release this again I would put a SNG and some more nails earlier on in the level.

So the map is a little hard.

The next map I realease will hopefully improve on points outlined to me since I started reading this forum!

I knew somebody would comment on the hollow spheres. The spheres are hollow because I used groups of brushes already used (I rushed it!) 

make a smaller map next time so you learn the same amount with less effort expended. :) 

The only way he managed to survive was by knowing beforehand what was going to happen, most noticable in the tower fight/luring the monsters on the lifts. The towers seemed to be the main gripe in this map - the prime indication of excessive difficulty.
The green armor in front of the base (between tower 1 and 3) should have been a red one, plus a little more health on the outside.
Luckily, for some reason I managed not to get hit by the explosion.

Quoth:
I realized for the first time that the rockteer actually shoots homing missles on hard :o (tip: he does, however, not fire at all if the player stands too close to him).
The Defender's SSG attack needs a tad more delay between animation (sound) and actual shot. The way it is now, the player hardly gets a chance to take cover. This can quickly become annoying and add to possible frustration. 

Only Ents build on fully compiled bsp? (i.e change point entities only, meaning a vis is not necessary?)

If so how?

I could doctor it a bit - more armour like you say - SNG on Hard much earlier, few more nails, y'know, fix it?

I am having interesting thoughts towards my next project. Playing Ankh's speed map was inspirational. I observed how he planned the map around gameplay whereas I planned this one with brushwork and appearance more in mind (although I tried to implement more fun gameplay elements also). 

qbsp -onlyents
make backups before you try. 

I have uploaded a 'fairer' version of the Sickbase to the Shub-Hub:

http://shubhub.com/files/maps_singleplayer/sickbase1.zip

Could one of the awesome moderator-type-people *please* update the link at the top (just add '1' between 'sickbase' and '.zip'(obviously))

Comiserations to the god-like Orl (maybe Nightmare is now within reach)

We now have:

- yellow armour at the end of the first room
- megahealth instead of normal near second tower
- red armour instead of blue near main entrance
- SNG at foot of first tower
- more nails if you look for them
- one less gaunt on hard

unable to fix faulty func_walls or lights due to lack of patience and time for re-vis

Hehe. Sorry people. I'd LIKE to look at this as extended play-testing exercise, but its a bit late for that really (hangs head in shame) 

RickyT23 dont stress ;) for the time that you are mapping map is very good! ;) but next time make more betas!!! :) and make map more fast please! the most fun stuff in quake is the speed... and this map made me feal stop :\

hope to see more from you, i think you got talent ;) 

I don't think that replacing already released single player map with new version is a good idea. Please don't do it.
It was an interresting approach to make a map that even the author can't beat. I'm sure there is always a way to complete impossible maps in quake. Let's just wait for an NH from Sielwolf :) 

The only way he managed to survive was by knowing beforehand what was going to happen, most noticable in the tower fight/luring the monsters on the lifts.

Theres more involved than just knowing where they were. I only knew where the monsters were from the first 3 towers. After that, I didn't know what to expect. Many of the monsters were in different positions in the beta, so many of the ambushes caught me by surprise, such as the vores and the vorelings in the SNG room, and all those flying winged demons near the end with the two gugs. Wasn't prepared for them. 

Its a nice engine in some ways but over the years has accumulated too much cruft and bugs. Yes it loads the map but runs dog slow on my computer (even after turning off RT lighting) and there are tons of clipping bugs. Aguires engine has no problems apart from a few disappearing brushes.

I don't know why ppl are saying its so hard, is there some unspoken rule that your not allowed to save? Completed it on nightmare and yes, even though I died more than a few times it was all over within an hour. I only found one point where I think it could be impossible - if you accidentally fall off the gug platform there is no way you can make it back up there to finish the map, without getting killed by the stomp attacks. 

Quit saying "so what if the map is hard, cry some more" for fuck's sake. The point I kept making was inappropriate amounts of space in combat. Not that the new weapons didn't come soon enough or there wasn't enough armor. You're too often either fighting shitloads of stuff at a time with no room to maneuver or stuff that's too far away to be feasible fighting in the first place.

I'm done here. Take it or leave it. 

In re-reading your initial post, the "tiny rooms" and distance aspects were just a couple of (good) comments among many; they didn't seem to me like the major focus of the feedback.

I suspect RickyT23 just might not have "gotten" it, since I had to read back to figure out exactly what you were referring to.

[/panties bunched]?
Or perhaps I'm just retarded. Eh. 

All I can say is that I've got a lot to think about before my next release.

Im not claiming that this is the best map ever made or anything like that.

I have uploaded a version of this map with a SNG so that when you get into the towers you can 'nail' (so to speak) all of those nasty Defenders with shotguns without having to have a cow. I could have removed some of the enemies from the rooms, but the SNG along with the red armour and extra health should mean that it isnt necessary. I cant change the fact that I released this, I maintain that some hardcore Quake addicts managed to blast their ways up to the roof on hard difficulty even prior to the changes, even that they felt compelled to do so, and didnt just delete it from their hard disks in disgust, theres nothing I can do about it. I have started putting some brushes together for my next project, and hopefully I'll have the mind to avoid nasty bottleneck blackspots that leave people feeling frustrated and dead.

I think that anyone who CAN do Sickbase on Nightmare (cause it is possible, was before, definately is now) should be pleased with themselves for being able to complete a very hard map!

Anyone who cant, I'm really really really sorry! 

Lunaran - Fuck you!

I fucking sent you a copy of this map, I fucking asked you if you would look at it, you said you would, I politely tried to remind you, so why didnt you voice your opinion to me then rather than wait for me to release it, THEN play it, THEN help me to see all of the flaws in it?

How come you bothered to look at it at all?

You miserable bastard. 

 

...I'd cool it now... 

Nice, I like it.

Haven't played the map yet.