you just have to set sv_cheats to 1 anytime after you start the game (you could do it in any map, and it will hold until you quit or set it back to 0)

annoying "feature" in my view, at least having it as default is 

while i'd love it if it ran in fitzquake, skipping nsoe3 is a real shame...

i just wish i could run in aglquake instead of darkplaces but there's some wierd bug in aglquake where these blocks of grey void appear on top of my screen.


also: i wanted to say, i liked the look of nsoe4 a lot, but i forgot to mention that last time because there was so much to take in. ^_^
the way you start off in that totally enclosed round structure and then make your way down and all of a sudden, the wall gives way to girders and you see this huge wide open area... good use of contrasting volumes there. the vores though... yeah those guys pissed me off. chain lightning gun got a lot of use in this map. it was nice to have a lot of cells and actually be able to use it once in a while. :) 

and also I second/third the non-removal of nsoe3, the best map by far. 

Couldn't nsoe3 be just slightly trimmed instead of removed altogether? It had some sections that felt just tacked on (i.e. the pyramid area) 

As a test during development, I removed all of the monsters so sound precaching and edict count would not exceed standard limits, and I still could not load nsoe3 in standard or FitzQuake. That map breaks limits that I cannot fix via QuakeC.

The upcoming progs that would work in standard/FitzQuake by skipping nsoe3 (among other cutbacks) would not replace the default nsoe progs. It would simply be an alternate progs.dat, like progs_dp.dat is for DarkPlaces. At first, people were lamenting that SoE: Indian Summer would not run in FitzQuake. Now people seem to be opposed to the idea of a scaled back version of the progs. The point of the so-called Fitz progs to come is so that anyone who cannot load any of the enhanced Quake engines can still play SoE: Indian Summer. Unless Tronyn says otherwise, there will be three progs.dat files in the update to come, with the AguirRe Quake progs as the default. Only the Fitz progs would have any cutbacks.

One note: The only difference between the default progs for AguirRe Quake and the progs for DarkPlaces is the DarkPlaces progs has modified flymode code, which would be necessary had one of the levels included dragonscale armor, a variant red armor which lets the player morph into a dragon. As I wrote earlier, the cheat 'impulse 14' is available to test the morph. 

so PM and I are going to tone down the difficulty (btw, necros, glad you appreciated nsoe4. If you can believe it, nsoe3 and 4 were originally one map - lol, then nsoe4 and nsoe5 were originally one map.)

Here's what I'm thinking:

-Remove some of the Vores that are in the most frustrating positions in snoe3 and 4
-Gems and Coins give bigger bonuses
-Demote many of the Hell Lords to Hell Knights
-Up the player's health and armour limits

Does this seem fair enough to everyone? 

Those seem like good fixes, and would help out a lot. What might also help is toning down the dragons a little, either make them slower, or have their attacks do less damage. Right now, they pretty much mop the floor with the player. 

Cor. Okay, having resorted to god mode on a couple of occasions, I've finally completed this level. I appreciate that resorting to cheats does change the intended experience somewhat, but I feel compelled to vent my feelings regarding this level as it is indicative of something that's been bothering me more and more about Quake level design recently.

Why's everybody so keen to make farcically huge Quake maps these days? Now I don't have a cutting edge machine any longer but I'd like to think that anything capable of running COD4 would be able to run a Quake mod fairly easily, even in DarkPlaces. As a matter of preference I've turned down most of the sparkly gimmicks that DarkPlaces offers, but NSOE3 still had my machine chugging in some places, which made the already epic battles even more difficult and generally reflected badly upon the rest of my experience in the level.

A lot of new code has clearly gone in to this mod and for the most part it's excellent, but why not implement some Quoth-like hub code that would allow the level to be split in to two or three smaller sections? The big blue area could certainly be a map of its own. Speaking of which, I found the spawn battle at the end of this bit appallingly misjudged. I don't mind spawns as a monster in their own right, but having to snipe a bunch of them in a large blue chamber before I can proceed is not fun in the slightest.

Having said all that, I do still look forward to the following level, as the demo makes it look good fun. 

If you can believe it, nsoe3 and 4 were originally one map

ahahahaa you're a maniac. ^_^

At first, people were lamenting that SoE: Indian Summer would not run in FitzQuake. Now people seem to be opposed to the idea of a scaled back version of the progs.

i think you're missing the point here. they're saying the map should have been designed to load up in fitz/standard glquake to begin with.
i sort of feel this way too-- i was forced to use darkplaces which runs a lot slower than normal glquake does (aguire's glquake has a major bug on my system that puts wierd grey squares all over my screen) so like text_fish, soe2, 3 and 4 all ran pretty poorly on my intel 2ghz ati x1950 pro machine. i understand a lot of this has to do with the lack of scalability of the quake engine-- 20000 wpoly in quake and quake4 is totally different for example. even with fancy effects, 20k wpoly in quake4 would probably run smoother than in quake.

in anycase, having nsoe3 present far outweighs having the mod run in fitz. it's the visual highlight of this pack for sure. 

...can anyone teach how to increase the amount of ram allocated by quake on a Mac system(the -winmem or hunkmegs or whaddaf**k command)? Is it even possible to do so?

Thanks a lot... 

but have you tried -heapsize ?
That's what most modern engines seem to use (with a couple of exceptions)
-winmem and -hunkmegs arent too familiar with me, although WinQuake uses -winmem AFAIK... 

...but I think the one you mentioned(along with the ones I wrote) only work on windows based OSs...

Moreover, I wouldn't know how to start Quake from a command line (maybe via terminal?).

But, thanks a lot anyway... 

-heapsize x (where x is Kilobytes, so -heapsize 100000 is 100 Megabytes) should work.
Yes, via terminal. Or create some kind of starter icon (I guess something like that exists even on a Mac)? 

my main problem was ammo.

And yes, the dragons are way tpp strong, especially when there's at least 5 of them at the one time. 

sdl fitzquake runs on mac and it pops up a nice little box that lets you type in command line args before you start. 

aguire's glquake has a major bug on my system that puts wierd grey squares all over my screen)

try -nomtex on the commandline 

that made the whole screen grey (except for a lil bit around my gun).

also, not sure if this is linked, but when i quit, the screen rez stayed the same and wouldn't let me change without restarting the computer. :S 

Which engine are you using? Both the ones I've used let you specify command line args, either, as spirit says, on the command line (./GLQuake.app/Contents/MacOS/GLQuake -whatever) or in a dialog before the game plays (maybe try holding down the option key as you open the app?). 

is Fruitz Of Dojo's GL Quake. I like it because it lets you use command key to strafe left, as I usually do (weird, I know).

Fitzquake does not allow use of the command key, leaving me with an uneasy (for me) keyboard use.

I only use it when I'm forced to do so...

Precious advices anyway, I'll try them. Thanks a lot.

Btw, Necros, ne_lend is AWESOME. Loved it to death(!).

Btw2, does anyone know of a Mac OSx engine capable of running higher end maps as nsoe3?
Tenebrae on my mac just gives a black screen with sparse bits of architecture scattered around. So I'm stuck with Fitz and Fruitz Of Dojo's GL Quake, but they don't handle maps as, say, Masque of the Red Death. Anyone has an idea? 

Then use DP or AGLQuake :P 

;) 

Map 2: "yeahmmm - seen those archers before." "Holy cow, did that shambler respawn the Vore ?!" "Dragons are awesome." Interesting quad which i desparately needed. Map 3: running like a chicken shit at the start, and from the dragons. Awesome sky.. classic map.

Just a few notes ... The coins/gems are cute, but can't be bothered trailing after them for a lousy +1. .... It's nice to be able to get up close to those zombie fuckers and give them a good shagging. I probably wouldn't have realised except for the demo. ... Darkplaces 20080808 seems to have no problems so far (except that it runs like a drunken three legged dog on my FX5600 ).

Kona and the nsoe3 dragons.. laugh :). I had to make a dash for the cave/tunnel, took out three from there, then one down in the church, and the last with the grenade launcher strafing around a column somewhere. They are pretty f-ing hard - but they *are* dragons. 

> Btw2, does anyone know of a Mac OSx engine capable of running higher
> end maps as nsoe3?

I just installed the latest stable Darkplaces engine, which seem to go fine and might compile without much hassle on OSX. Havoc says: "Note: no Mac binaries included this time, I have not set up compiling on a Mac I have access to yet, if you need Mac binaries please email me to remind me". You could try here, but it's possible you'll have issues with an older version:

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Games/Dark-Places.shtml 

oops ... ?? 

More testing revealed nsoe4 can break edict limits due to high number of missiles generated should one try to run through the beginning as quickly as possible for whatever reason (speedrun, cause infighting, get big guns now). That, among other things which will be revealed in due time, has changed my mind on producing a progs.dat for standard/Fitz Quake. In other words, the update will have progs.dat and progs_dp.dat as before.